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400+ VOLUME

T

TONYTHOMAS1956

Oct 28, 2005
313
0
69
FLATWOODS KY.
#1
When I got my 400+ I only used it one time when the tubes crapped out on me so I mothballed it till I got the tubes. Now its tubed also with new pre tubes along with the 12au7 mod. So this evening we were setting up and it just didnt have the nads I thought so Im wondering just how much difference in volume between the au and the ax? The tone sounds great.
Im pairing it up with an Avatar B410 (8ohm).
 
#2
I thought the volume was a little anemic from my 400+ (also with the 12au7 mod) when I was running two EA 2x10 cabinets but when I picked up a Powerhouse 1200 (4x10, 1x15, horn) I cut the master to 4-ish (I was at 8) and have no trouble keeping up with two full stacks and a hard hitting drummer in a metal band.

If the 400+ is in good shape I'd try it with some different cabinet combos before giving up on it. Try testing it with a 1x15 for starters.
 
#4
I have done the 12AU7 mod and mine still has huge grunt, although I initially thought it had lost a little volume. What you will notice is that you can set the inputs higher because it will remain clean at louder volumes, so don't be afraid to do this or to crank up the bass if that is your sound(use the pull knob on the bass control).I am sure the overall volume remains the same (and the infamous and much missed Psychobassguy who originated the mod has stated this somewhere).The 12Au7 mod does make the tone controls much more user friendly. If you are looking for lots of heavy overdrive maybe the mod is not for you.
 
#6
TONYTHOMAS1956 said:
No way am I giving up on it! Ive got a 115 so Ill try it . I want to keep using 2 B410's. (used them one time before tubes crapped out) At sound check, master was at 10 and ch. was 5-6. May have to put 12ax7 back in. Time to experiment with it a while.
Click to expand...

Which channel was 5-6? Channel 2 is MUCH louder at the same numerical setting. Haven't tried the mod. I've never had the master above 5, usually run Input 2 around 4 and it's quite loud, but this is with 4 cabinets.
 
#8
Tim1 said:
I have done the 12AU7 mod and mine still has huge grunt, although I initially thought it had lost a little volume. What you will notice is that you can set the inputs higher because it will remain clean at louder volumes, so don't be afraid to do this or to crank up the bass if that is your sound(use the pull knob on the bass control).I am sure the overall volume remains the same (and the infamous and much missed Psychobassguy who originated the mod has stated this somewhere).The 12Au7 mod does make the tone controls much more user friendly. If you are looking for lots of heavy overdrive maybe the mod is not for you.
Click to expand...

Exact same thing happened to me when I did it. Actually, the overdrive was much more evened out throughout my bass tone. It was not just over top madness, the lower gain tube in there brought the amp to a more reasonable setting overall. Before it was like very little volume to extreme volume with a slight knob turn. I think the volume is still there, maybe just a little less in the midrange where the growl really was.
 
#10
lorenk said:
I think I might have to try the au mod...cuz thats what I've been experiencing, and its frickin hard to find a suitable volume for practicing. well, one that the rest of the band likes :D
Click to expand...

I had the EXACT same issue with my band, at least I could admit it was too loud;)

It was funny though when they asked me to turn the rig down and I could not figure out what knob to mess with as everything was around 2-4 or less on the volume/master controls! Was I dumbfounded!
 
#11
I used the 400+ with 2 ampeg 410 classic cabs, and it was bowel shakin' loud... tone was great too... I got rid of the 400+ due to the fact that the 400+ with the shock proof road case weighed about 125 lbs, and it was way too much for most venues I play in (I don't do arenas much anymore).
 
#13
Gearhead17 said:
I had the EXACT same issue with my band, at least I could admit it was too loud;)

It was funny though when they asked me to turn the rig down and I could not figure out what knob to mess with as everything was around 2-4 or less on the volume/master controls! Was I dumbfounded!
Click to expand...


haha they say admitting there is a problem is the first step to recovery :)

on a side note, my band played tonight, and a kind soul, in an attempt to help, unplugged my 400+ while it was in standby mode...will this hurt the amp at all? Thanks!
 
#14
Fealach said:
Which channel was 5-6? Channel 2 is MUCH louder at the same numerical setting. Haven't tried the mod. I've never had the master above 5, usually run Input 2 around 4 and it's quite loud, but this is with 4 cabinets.
Click to expand...

So we played last night and the results werent great. The amp sounded like it was wounded! Dirty sound no matter what setting I used (high master, low input and vise-versa). Im using channel 2 which is made more for passive (using Fender 5 string Jazz w/Barts Non Active). It was a dirty, distorded sound. So Im thinking I may have gotton a bad preamp tube (new doesnt always mean good). Start checking all the normal things like input, speaker cables take tuner out of line, nothing changed so I get my standby amp (SVT pro III) and it sounds almost the same way. Now Im wondering if I have a cab issue. Never had any issues with the Avatar 410 Neo's before. Had an instance 2 weeks ago with the SVT 3 when I had a real high pitch feedback. Could this have done something to the crossover in the cab?
 
#17
TONYTHOMAS1956 said:
So we played last night and the results werent great. The amp sounded like it was wounded! Dirty sound no matter what setting I used (high master, low input and vise-versa). Im using channel 2 which is made more for passive (using Fender 5 string Jazz w/Barts Non Active). It was a dirty, distorded sound. So Im thinking I may have gotton a bad preamp tube (new doesnt always mean good). Start checking all the normal things like input, speaker cables take tuner out of line, nothing changed so I get my standby amp (SVT pro III) and it sounds almost the same way. Now Im wondering if I have a cab issue. Never had any issues with the Avatar 410 Neo's before. Had an instance 2 weeks ago with the SVT 3 when I had a real high pitch feedback. Could this have done something to the crossover in the cab?
Click to expand...

From the sounds of it, it most likely is the cab; and since the problem started after the feedback, I'd bet my not so great retirement that the feedback caused it. Did you try Channel 1 though? From the manual:

Input 1 and Volume 1 offer a high-headroom preamp that you might find preferable for active type basses. The gain is slightly lower than Channel 2 and the tonal personality is
slightly different.

Might be worth checking out Channel 1, though I'm pretty sure it's the cab.
 
#18
TonyThomas, are you SURE you have a 12AU7 fitted, or if so is it in the right place? Sorry to appear to doubt you, but the "dirty sound no matter what" that you describe is close to how I could have described my 400+ BEFORE I did the 12AU7 mod. My attempt to replace my Mesa with an SVT fell through recently, so at last night's gig I spent a little more time than usual fine tuning my tone and it was well worth it. My guitard runs a full Marshall stack and cranks it at times yet I was able to keep up with ease and with a clean tone. You might also try starting with a flat 2-10 -2 (Bass/mid/treble) tone knob setting and move slowly from that. The tonal versatility that this amp has with the 12AU7 mod really is substantial, but it does take some getting used to. I have found that I can substantially boost the bass if I wish and it is still clean - but I am playing into one or two Berg NV cabs.
 
#19
Hey Tim1,
Thanks for the advise. I did open it up and check the pre tube locations and the au7 was in the right spot(socket close to the power switch). I dont think I mentioned that I put all JJ's for the pre's. I will be taking a 115 tonight and try it. Hope this fixes it, Ive got an outside show tommorow afternoon.
 
#20
Hi Tony, hope you get things sorted. Incidentally, I also have all JJ preamp tubes with the original Mesa power tubes (I bought my 400+ new about 5 years ago), so I would say that if you still can't get a loud clean tone without grind it might need checking out by a tech. The 400+ is a class act IMO - it won't quite do SVT but you can get close, and it is far more versatile than the SVT tonewise.
 

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