410 + 115 question

[Lowtonejoe]

intelligently combining cabs suggests to me that someone read up on the subject and learned a little something about audio physics. it doesn't suggest that someone looked at a 410 and a 115 cab, and decided that since the 115 has a bigger speaker, it will put out more lows than the 410. that's engineering by looks.

Yes that is true.

It is also true that if it sounds good, it is good.

If someone who knows nothing about speakers and cabs put two different cabs together happens across the 'right' combination kudos to them. Some folks are lucky like that.

I would think that a 215 would be a better companion to a 410 than a 115 would...but it just depends. For myself I paired a 4 ohm 210 with an 8 ohm 115 for many years with excellent results and lots of compliments on my tone.

Nowdays I usually just run one cab (appropriately sized for the purpose) and occasionally a 210/410 stack. Just haven't needed more than that.



Joe.

 

[murphy]

Just my 2 cents
I had 2 Hartke 410XL cabs
Traded one for a 115XL and the combo sounded wayyyyy better!!

Loved it

 

[JimmyM]

I've seen MANY Orange Amplifier ads and pictures showing their 410 bass cab on top of their 115. I've also seen a fair number of shows where the bass player had this setup.

Anyone care to comment on the Orange's specifically? I recently bought a OBC115 and was looking at getting a matching 410 but im kind of unsure now...

orange stacks both in their ads to show off both in their ads. it has zip to do with sounding good.

however, i do agree with those who say "if it sounds good, it is good." like i said, i'd never tell vic wooten he was out to lunch. but the potential problems don't just go away because you like your rig.

 

[Tim C.]

Not sure about that...

The audio engineers are. Audio, like anything worth thinking about, is measurable. Very measurable, actually.

Hearing may be relative, preferences may be relative, but that wasn't my point when I said a 410 coupled with another identical 410 is, in fact, better than that 410 coupled with a 115.

And unless you're a freak, it will sound better to you. It kinda blows my mind that anybody would continue to argue with that fact given the vast amound of freely available knowledge granted to us by very educated, very experienced members of this forum.

 

[zulujack]

I have a Hartke 415/115 combo with aluminium cones. About the best combo I've ever tried (for what I do). Having said that I use them with a twin channel power amp and twin channel eq so that I can balance their volume and dial in the frequencies for both cabs independently. The biggest problem I have with the 4 is its weight. certainly wouldn't want to carry another one of them suckers.

 

[JimmyM]

I have a Hartke 415/115 combo with aluminium cones. About the best combo I've ever tried (for what I do). Having said that I use them with a twin channel power amp and twin channel eq so that I can balance their volume and dial in the frequencies for both cabs independently.

that makes a big difference. phasing issues become way less if you use separate amps or 2 channel amps with separate power sections and eq's.

 

[VinylRepairKit]

The audio engineers are. Audio, like anything worth thinking about, is measurable. Very measurable, actually.

Hearing may be relative, preferences may be relative, but that wasn't my point when I said a 410 coupled with another identical 410 is, in fact, better than that 410 coupled with a 115.

And unless you're a freak, it will sound better to you. It kinda blows my mind that anybody would continue to argue with that fact given the vast amound of freely available knowledge granted to us by very educated, very experienced members of this forum.

Point taken, but I was talking about the hearing aspect of it.

I just don't much point in talking about audio without any hearing involved in this context. Its about making a tone that will sound good to listeners. If you prefer the sound of a 4x10 + 1x15 and don't care about anything else I don't see why you shouldn't do it. (For the record I prefer 2 4x10s)

I have no doubts that scientifically speaking two matched 4x10s are more efficient and less prone to problems than a 4x10 and a 4x15.

Anyways though what I really meant about audio being relative, is that it is relative to the medium it is traveling through (e.g. humidity, wind, temperature) the room it is in, and of course the neurological nuances of the listener, etc.

Audio engineers cannot measure (very well at least) how the ear takes in pressure waves which get turned into sound and music in the brain. Nevertheless though, measurement and relativity are not mutually exclusive terms.

 

[jastacey]

If someone really wants a 15" with the 10" drivers, may I suggest the Bergantino NV425, it has 3-10's and one 15, and in my view it is the best combination of 10's & a 15 .... it's kinda hard to find, but well worth the effort in acquiring one, it's a blend of the NV215 & NV610

 

[ItsMichaelYeah]

I love this combination. I had a ampeg 810 and a 1540he. And the 1540he IMHO was hands down the best sounding cab I have ever owned.

 

[BassmanPaul]

If you prefer the sound of a 4x10 + 1x15 and don't care about anything else I don't see why you shouldn't do it.

In the OP's case he has a 400W 8Ω 4x10. He wants to add a 200W 8Ω 1x15 thus giving him a 4Ω load. His amp will give out 450W into that load which will be equally divided between them. Thus 225W per cabinet. His 4x10 will be crusin' with that 225W while his 1x15 will be overdriven and crying for mercy. Add to that the fact that the 15 will be on the floor while the 4x10 will be at ear level. The 15s cry for mercy will never be heard until it fails.

I consider that a good reason NOT to mix the pair.

Paul

 

[VinylRepairKit]

In the OP's case he has a 400W 8Ω 4x10. He wants to add a 200W 8Ω 1x15 thus giving him a 4Ω load. His amp will give out 450W into that load which will be equally divided between them. Thus 225W per cabinet. His 4x10 will be crusin' with that 225W while his 1x15 will be overdriven and crying for mercy. Add to that the fact that the 15 will be on the floor while the 4x10 will be at ear level. The 15s cry for mercy will never be heard until it fails.

I consider that a good reason NOT to mix the pair.

Paul

Yeah we had kind of got away from the OP. I agree that his proposed setup would not work well at all (especially with the amp turned up loud).

 

[Tangentor]

This thread is making me REALLY want to dust off / de-spider my old SWR Workingman's 410T in the garage (with questionable speaker condition... haven't used it in 6 years)...

..and try it with my new GK MB500 head, to see if the speakers work...

...and if they do, put the old SWR 410 on the bottom, then stack my newly-purchased (used) Aguilar S410 on the top...

...then hear how the full 500w of the MB500 sounds through eight 10s (albeit mismatched in quality, I'm sure)!

Sorry to derail the OP further, but eight 10s sounds really appealing. Plus, if the old cab works, it would be free to try!

 

[Lowtonejoe]

In the OP's case he has a 400W 8Ω 4x10. He wants to add a 200W 8Ω 1x15 thus giving him a 4Ω load. His amp will give out 450W into that load which will be equally divided between them. Thus 225W per cabinet. His 4x10 will be crusin' with that 225W while his 1x15 will be overdriven and crying for mercy. Add to that the fact that the 15 will be on the floor while the 4x10 will be at ear level. The 15s cry for mercy will never be heard until it fails.

I consider that a good reason NOT to mix the pair.

Paul

If he isn't turning up all the way he will be fine.

There is nothing wrong with running two cabs that are rated at different wattages as long as you don't exceed what the lesser watted speaker can handle.

I ran my 350w 4ohm 210 with my 200w 8 ohm 115 cab for years with no problems. Those of you who are smart will see why this works.

If you figure it out and say 'That's not the same!' I'll just say so what? Re-read the second paragraph.



Joe.

 

[maevinj]

In the OP's case he has a 400W 8Ω 4x10. He wants to add a 200W 8Ω 1x15 thus giving him a 4Ω load. His amp will give out 450W into that load which will be equally divided between them. Thus 225W per cabinet. His 4x10 will be crusin' with that 225W while his 1x15 will be overdriven and crying for mercy. Add to that the fact that the 15 will be on the floor while the 4x10 will be at ear level. The 15s cry for mercy will never be heard until it fails.

I consider that a good reason NOT to mix the pair.

Paul

WHy does the 15 have to always be on the floor? The smart thing to do is to put the 15 on top. it also sounds better

 

[Lowtonejoe]

WHy does the 15 have to always be on the floor? The smart thing to do is to put the 15 on top. it also sounds better

I did that for quite a while. It works really well.

Joe.

 

[Wyrm74]

For all the gas you read about here saying NOT to mix the pair, your proposed combo can sound great. My Bag End 410 +115 combo will not only slay large animals upon command but also sounds amazing! Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done, because it can and often is. I will soon be paring down to just my 410 because I don't play large enough shows any more to warrant the super combo, but it has nothing to do with how the rig sounds. It KILLS!

With that said, I have never tried 2-410 cabs to see what that combo sounds like. Maybe even better!

In the end, you need to go with your ears. If you like it, run with it. If you don't, don't. Do be careful with the power/volume though. Those cautioning you about overworking and possibly blowing the 115 are correct!

 

[Turock]

you know, a lot of people are saying it's a matter of taste, and it is. victor wooten does it and he sounds good. but vic doesn't study audio physics, and the truth is that audio physics are not on your side.

Lots of things do or don't "look good on paper".

 

[Adlerburg]

I use GK RBX115 on the bottom and the RBX410 on top. The tone is amazing and is far beyond tonally my old SVTs with the matching 810 cab (which I loved for years). It also tromps my old Acoustic with 215s. I would agree that running them in parallel from a single power source, even though they are both 8ohm cabs, wouldn't be as efficient or sound as good as 2x410s or 2x115... but powering them from (essentially) 2 separate power amps have given me the luxury of tuning each cab to work with the other beautifully.
I run a Bmax-T pre into an EL34 100/100 dual monobloc amp. The preamp feeds signal in parallel to both power sections, then the two 100w power stages autonomously feed each cab separately. After tweaking and carving out frequencies for each section (both sides have gain and presence), the tone is thunderous, defined, fat.. and everything I could ask for. I did run into some phase issues, but was resolved with tweaking. I haven't tried running the 410 on the bottom like some have suggested... as it sounds stellar the way it is.. but I'm curious now and will try.

 

[Gearhead17]

One factor overlooked is the idea of having the 410 stacked on the 115 and the "rig sounding better" - it sounds better mainly because the 410 is closer to your ears. So you just figured out how great your 410 sounds.....

I think we can roll with this phrase - 410/115 when you don't need a lot of volume and two identical cabs when you need MORE/MAX volume.

In the end though, play what you like and be done with it. For those of us who want to save money and headaches - buy two identical cabs!

In regards to Vic Wooten and so many artists using the 410/115 setup, how do we know the 115 or ANY OF THEIR CABS/AMPS are actually on? With dummy cabs, In-Ear Monitoring, different backstage rigs and so on... what can we believe? Unless we are on stage with favorite bass players, we will never know.

 

[Adlerburg]

Good point Gearhead! I remember going to Judas Priest shows when I was a teen and the stage being "decorated" with a wall of Marshalls 8 stacks high. I'm sure the guitar players were playing through one amp and one/two cabs.. rest for show. I'm sure there is a good possibility that Vic Wooten's endorsee could be paying to have whatever product they deem needs exposure... and in reality he could be going through one cab or for that matter DI.