• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

410 + 115 question

#61
Lowtonejoe said:
If he isn't turning up all the way he will be fine.

There is nothing wrong with running two cabs that are rated at different wattages as long as you don't exceed what the lesser watted speaker can handle.
Click to expand...

This thread is getting a little long in the tooth, and is probably well settled by now, but I feel i owe Joe a response.

What you've said here Joe is very true. The gotcha I see is that none of us, except for the OP, knows how loud the guy plays. If he is in a loud band then his 15 will be in constant danger. We also have to remember that most power ratings are for the thermal limits of the drivers. Over excursion is really bad for any driver and in general that happens well before the thermal limits.

Paul
 
#62
Tim C. said:
The audio engineers are. Audio, like anything worth thinking about, is measurable. Very measurable, actually.

Hearing may be relative, preferences may be relative, but that wasn't my point when I said a 410 coupled with another identical 410 is, in fact, better than that 410 coupled with a 115.

And unless you're a freak, it will sound better to you. It kinda blows my mind that anybody would continue to argue with that fact given the vast amound of freely available knowledge granted to us by very educated, very experienced members of this forum.
Click to expand...

Now wait a minute. Power handling issues aside, "Better" in regards to tone, is absolutely relative.

Two of the same cab will sound more like the input because there are fewer phase anomalies carving up the response. You say it's "better" that way, but by that logic your bass should be plugged straight into the sound board with the EQ flat.

The different inaccuracies of different bass cabinets are what make up their tone, and if you're calling anyone a freak for liking a certain tone, you're just plain trolling.


For what it's worth, I hate the 4 10"/1 15" combo, but I don't condescend when someone disagrees with my Hi-Fi preference.
 
#63
We all have to remember that everyone's ears are different and the dreaded 410/115 with phase cancellation and overall weird tone sounds good to some people. Just like those of us who can't stand high end and only want a thick booming mess on stage. And then we have the soundguys who think bands sound better with barely any bass guitar at festivals (yes, I have met those people).

I am done stating my opinions. I am going to go watch the video "Slap Bass" straring Ed Friedland so I can learn the technique. I despise slap bass and my cover band said we should do a Chilli Peppers song:rollno: Thanks guys!:bassist:
 
#64
PunkSweeper said:
Now wait a minute. Power handling issues aside, "Better" in regards to tone, is absolutely relative.

Two of the same cab will sound more like the input because there are fewer phase anomalies carving up the response. You say it's "better" that way, but by that logic your bass should be plugged straight into the sound board with the EQ flat.

The different inaccuracies of different bass cabinets are what make up their tone, and if you're calling anyone a freak for liking a certain tone, you're just plain trolling.


For what it's worth, I hate the 4 10"/1 15" combo, but I don't condescend when someone disagrees with my Hi-Fi preference.
Click to expand...
i'd hardly call a two 410 rig "hi fi" ;)
 
#66
Adlerburg said:
I remember going to Judas Priest shows when I was a teen and the stage being "decorated" with a wall of Marshalls 8 stacks high. I'm sure the guitar players were playing through one amp and one/two cabs.. rest for show.
Click to expand...

It's a good thing all those cabs weren't loaded and powered otherwise we'd all have gone deaf during that tour.
That was the 1982 Screaming For Vengeance tour.
 
#67
Victor Wooten has used used 4x10/1x15 (2 of each) cab combinations for years. He used to use Ampeg (2 SVTPro4 amps w/ BLX cabs) but recently switched to Hartke (2 LH 1000 amps and HyDrive cabs). The 4x10's are rated at 1000watts and the 1x15's at 500 watts. Seems to work fine for him. I've noticed that with most manufacturers the 1x15 cabs are roughly half the power rating of the 4x10 cabs. Must be a reason for it as many bassists use this combination. The only exception I've seen with this is the Mesa Powerhouse cabs. Both the 4x10 and 1x15 are rated at 600 watts. The 4x10 and 1x15 Ampeg B series cabs are both rated at 200 watts but both cabs are full range frequency response so it doesn't make much sense to pair them. However, the Ampeg SVT series cabs seem to be designed for pairing.
 
#70
snowtraveler65 said:
Victor Wooten has used used 4x10/1x15 (2 of each) cab combinations for years. He used to use Ampeg (2 SVTPro4 amps w/ BLX cabs) but recently switched to Hartke (2 LH 1000 amps and HyDrive cabs). The 4x10's are rated at 1000watts and the 1x15's at 500 watts. Seems to work fine for him. I've noticed that with most manufacturers the 1x15 cabs are roughly half the power rating of the 4x10 cabs. Must be a reason for it as many bassists use this combination. The only exception I've seen with this is the Mesa Powerhouse cabs. Both the 4x10 and 1x15 are rated at 600 watts. The 4x10 and 1x15 Ampeg B series cabs are both rated at 200 watts but both cabs are full range frequency response so it doesn't make much sense to pair them. However, the Ampeg SVT series cabs seem to be designed for pairing.
Click to expand...
when it comes to playing advice, vic is one of the first people i would go to. but the guy endorses a $150 power cord that says it greatly improves the sound of your amp, but ignores the fact that after that $150 power cord is a run of wires inside your house that are way cheaper and totally negate anything the power cord could do, if it in fact could do anything, which it can't. so when it comes to the technical end, vic is one of the last people i would consult with.

mixing a 410 with a 115 so one can do what the other can't is called "engineering by looks."
 
#71
FWIW - I use an Eden WT400 to power an Eden 410D and 112XLT. I really like this pair. I never over power the 112XLT. I get a ton of clear pure sound that cuts through perfectly. Those are the cabs I have on hand and they work great together. I might be able to find better matching Cabs, but I'm really enjoy my sound.
 
#72
Corporate Boy said:
FWIW - I use an Eden WT400 to power an Eden 410D and 112XLT. I really like this pair. I never over power the 112XLT. I get a ton of clear pure sound that cuts through perfectly. Those are the cabs I have on hand and they work great together. I might be able to find better matching Cabs, but I'm really enjoy my sound.
Click to expand...

If the cabs are both the same impedance I think that you might, one day, be adding to the plethora of "I blowed up my 112" posts. I hope I'm wrong - don't want to wish ill on anyone. I also hope that the 112 is twice the impedance of your 4x10.
 
#74
Corporate Boy said:
I think I'm in good shape...

WT400 at 4ohms is 400 RMS

410T is rated 540 RMS

112XLT is rated at 250 RMS.


The 410 is hungry, but the 112 is fat and happy. I never find myself wanting more power.
Click to expand...
Watts mean nothing. Whats the total driver displacement of your 410 versus your 112? That's what lies at the crux of this never ending debate, which not coincidentally places those who know what driver displacement on one side of the fence and those who don't on the other.
the guy endorses a $150 power cord that says it greatly improves the sound of your amp
Click to expand...
Yeah, that very much removes him from any consideration as an objective source. I've got no problem with someone playing and recommending what they're paid to, it's the American way. Doesn't mean I'm going to give it any credence at all.
 
#76
Corporate Boy said:
I was saying that I won't blow my speaker.
Click to expand...
That also is as often as not a displacement issue, not thermal. Possibly the most often blown driver of all time was the original Delta 10. It was rated at 350 watts, so guys with 200 watt heads couldn't figure out why they were blowing 2x10s loaded with them. It's because they were displacement limited to only 35 watts. The guys running them didn't know that, so they went though them faster than Patton through France. What's worse, the manufacturers using them didn't know it either; they'd also chose to use them based solely on the thermal power rating.
 
#77
billfitzmaurice said:
That also is as often as not a displacement issue, not thermal. Possibly the most often blown driver of all time was the original Delta 10. It was rated at 350 watts, so guys with 200 watt heads couldn't figure out why they were blowing 2x10s loaded with them. It's because they were displacement limited to only 35 watts. The guys running them didn't know that, so they went though them faster than Patton through France. What's worse, the manufacturers using them didn't know it either; they'd also chose to use them based solely on the thermal power rating.
Click to expand...

Bill, when you said the 'original' Delta 10, was that the very mid present 10 that were in the Avatar B210 Deltas with the 700 watt cab rating?
 
#78
tjh said:
Bill, when you said the 'original' Delta 10, was that the very mid present 10 that were in the Avatar B210 Deltas with the 700 watt cab rating?
Click to expand...
Yes. A few years back when Dupont exited the voice former business Eminence had to redo their voice coils, and at that point they doubled the xmax of the Delta 10, which quadrupled its displacement limit, so today they are OK, but barely, as the 66Hz Fs is still too high. The 16 ohm version still has only 1.8mm xmax, so it remains unsuitable for electric bass.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back