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410 vs 810 - volume difference?
- Thread starter Ondoval
- Start date
well, doubling the speakers is +2-3dB, other things equal.
but the perceived volume for you might be more if the 410 will be firing at your knees. it would still be pretty loud for everyone else, but not just near the cab. to get around this you could elevate the cab.
frankly a vertical stack of two vertical 210s is the best of two worlds: it's as tall as a 810 (so you can hear it better) and it's a half of it, but like split not horizontally, but vertically, that makes a better horizontal dispersion on stage.
but the perceived volume for you might be more if the 410 will be firing at your knees. it would still be pretty loud for everyone else, but not just near the cab. to get around this you could elevate the cab.
frankly a vertical stack of two vertical 210s is the best of two worlds: it's as tall as a 810 (so you can hear it better) and it's a half of it, but like split not horizontally, but vertically, that makes a better horizontal dispersion on stage.
You lose efficiency, not necessarily volume. It depends on the speakers' power handling and your amp.
If you go from a 4 Ohm 810 to an 8 Ohm 410, you'll lose 6 dB of speaker efficiency assuming the 810 is effectively two of the 410s.
If you replace the 810 with completely different speakers it'll depend on what you have and what you're getting -- for example a 4 Ohm 410 might allow you to continue to get "all the watts" from your amp but if the speaker itself is less efficient you won't necessarily get any more volume out of it.
If you are currently pushing the 810 to its' max volume potential there will be a significant difference, but otherwise you probably won't have an issue, especially if you can tilt or elevate the 410. Another vote for a pair of vertically stacked 210s here.
Get a pair of barefaced big twins. You'll probably gain volume and make it much easier to move.
i have a hartke 4x10 that's too loud for "the band" not me tho 
..need to downsize and clear some heavier older gear, but this 2x10 option might be a good idea.
..need to downsize and clear some heavier older gear, but this 2x10 option might be a good idea.
I've played through a few 8X10's in the past for provided backline but never owned one. I have had good success with my Genzler BA410-3 cab. I set it on a Grammapad and the the back feet hang over the back ledge of it creating a small angle up. The big advantage is the linearray design. The sound dispersion is amazing and I find myself not pushing this cab nearly like some of the previous 4X10 cabs I've owned in the past.
Unless you are playing large stages or playing outdoor gigs without front of house, a 410 should be more than sufficient IMHO.
I've got to agree with stacks of 2x10. Being an older dude, I'd rather cart in an 8x10 than a 4x10. I even dumped my my 4 10 for a 610 that was way easier to handle. Now, I've got 2 2x10s and it's a very good situation with more versatility.
Nothing matches the 810s volume, but everyone gets old. For me I wish I would have admitted it 10 years earlier.
Nothing matches the 810s volume, but everyone gets old. For me I wish I would have admitted it 10 years earlier.
Exactly how much will depend on the efficiency of the 410 cab. I agree with other posts that losing those top 4 speakers will, have an effect on not only the volume but also a loss of clarity, part of the charm of an 810 cab. I can also mention that 410 cabs seem to be on the heavy side and don't have the built in dolly that a 810 has.
One last thought. Two 210 cabs stacked vertically might have advantages as opposed to a 410 cab. The first is the top speaker will be approximately in the same place as the top as speakers on an 810. Secondly there might be occasions where you only need the one cab. Finally, some 210 ten cabs are very efficient. For instance, my 8 ohm Eden D-210-XST can produce up to 127 dBs which has covered rooms seating over 700 with no FOH.
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Ondoval,
What amp head do you use? Going from an 8-10 to a 4-10 usually means a higher impedance which with a solid state amp can cost you another 3dB. Your Ampeg fridge is 4 ohms, most 4-10s are 8 ohm so they can be run together as a 4 ohm load.
Then when that becomes too big and heavy, it's time for a 3-10
What amp head do you use? Going from an 8-10 to a 4-10 usually means a higher impedance which with a solid state amp can cost you another 3dB. Your Ampeg fridge is 4 ohms, most 4-10s are 8 ohm so they can be run together as a 4 ohm load.
Then when that becomes too big and heavy, it's time for a 3-10
Some of those Ampeg 4X10 are louder than the 8X10, If you got a Mesa or Bergantino or Genzler they will be louder from what I have experienced. If I had a choice in backline I would still prefer the 810 because it is not as boomy. I think those Genzlers with the array would be my choice if I need to get a 410
I'm a huge advocate for the (sealed) Ampeg 410HE. It does indeed sound totally Ampeg fridge in a small package. I gig a friend's 410HE often and love it. I love fridges, but a fridge is way overkill for my needs. The 410HE sounds close and can still fill most stages with perfect authority (including the low end). Better than any 410 I've ever had, which were nothing special, but still known to be loud (Hartke 410XL, 4.5.XL, Peavey 410TVX). The HE can get as loud, but ballsier than any of those (despite being sealed, thus nowhere near as "spectacular" as per low end response specs) and way punchier too. They're not expensive in the 2nd. hand market.
The numbers people are quoting are based on everything else being equal, and with the volume knob on the amp in the same place. So yeah, if you run the amp 100% up, and the speakers and cab design are exactly the same, then you can expect -3db from the loss of speakers and -3db from the change in ohms (assuming it's going to 8ohm). I'm reality though, it's really hard to gauge how much it will effect you and your bands when you're playing because there are so many other factors (and I'm assuming you don't have every knob on your amp all the way up). For example, if you like a lot of low lows in your sound, and you're going from an ampeg fridge to something else that is tuned for those low lows, it might end up being better. Or maybe it will be worse, because you like the mid grind that the ampeg cab does really well, and you go to a cab that has a huge scoop and you're constantly fighting it to get the sound that you want, in addition to the less efficient speakers.
If you haven't already, also explore other options like 212 cabs and 215s from various manufacturers.
If you haven't already, also explore other options like 212 cabs and 215s from various manufacturers.
I agree that this will be your best solution and much easier to transport.
Volume difference? Maybe. If your drummer is really heavy, a drum shield is in EVERYONE's best interest including club owners, patrons and audience interested in the bar, to say nothing of you and the bandmates for live-and practice! And guess what? If your drummer can't hear your 4x10 or other people can't, well... your drummer should stop hitting so hard, and the band and everyone's experience with it will be better and sound better. Going to a 4X10 seems like a long-overdue solution, and why should you carry TWICE the number of speakers and weight and, and, and... just because the drummer can't manage to play with more control???????
I'm on your side here.
If the speakers are the same in both the 410 and the 810, you will lose 3 dB with the same power input. If the amp you'r using will double its output into half the load impedance (most solid state amps are like that), that's another 3dB in favor of the 810. A 210 (all drivers the same) is 6 dB less efficient than an 810 - that means you need 4x the power to get the same SPL out of a 210, and of course, the 210 will run out of steam (hit its displacement limits at low frequencies) .....6dB sooner.
Fridges actually have speaker drivers in them that aren't very efficient, used one at a time. They depend on array gain/mutual coupling to get decent efficiency.
Fridges actually have speaker drivers in them that aren't very efficient, used one at a time. They depend on array gain/mutual coupling to get decent efficiency.
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