410 vs 810 - volume difference?

[Wasnex]

When you double matching cabs in parallel: sensitivity goes up +3dB, power handling doubles, impedance is cut in half.

The sensitivity gain assumes perfect summing. Real world gain will be slightly less; perhaps 2-2.5dB

Example:

Ampeg 810E
Sensitivity = 100dB 1W/1m
Power Rating = 800W

Ampeg 410HE. Same drivers but the internal chambers are slightly smaller.
Sensitivity = 98dB 1W/1m
Power Rating = 500W

Calculated SPL = [Log(usable power) x 10] + sensitivity at 1W/1m

FYI the part of the equation in brackets calculates the decibel change from raising to power from 1W to the usable power.
If power is held constant, the difference between these cabs will be 2dB per the specs, because the 810 has a 2dB higher sensitivity rating.

At 300W
810 = [Log(300) x 10] + 100 = ~124.8
410 = [Log(300) x 10] + 98 = ~122.8

As you see, calculated SPL for the 410 is +2dB.

Decibel change 1W to 300W = [Log(300) x 10] = ~24.8dB

In order for the 410 to play as loud as the 810, you need 2dB more usable power.

Solve for 2dB increase over 300W.

I'll insert images of the math as I don't think you can write the formula directly here.

Convert to exponential

Solve for X

Let's confirm with the Log form

Decibel Change 300W to 475.5W = Log(~475.5/300) x 10 = 2dB

Calculated SPL of 410 at ~475.5W = [Log(475.5) x 10] + 98 = 124.8dB

Theoretically a 410 with ~475.5W should play as loud as an 810 with 300W. However, the 410 is running pretty close to it's 500W power rating, so you will probably loose a bit of SPL to power compression. The 810 will experience less power compression because it is running at < half of rated power.

 

[Sparkl]

I have an ampeg 810 cab. For various reasons I'm considering selling it and buying a 410.

How much loss of perceived volume should I expect? I have a drummer with very heavy hands.

Big difference. Nothing to do necessarily with volume, you will <<feel>> the difference.

 

[shadven]

If you get an Ampeg 4x10, get the 410HE not the HLF. The HE sounds much more like the 810. The HLF is too muddy IMHO

 

[Ondoval]

Ondoval,

What amp head do you use? Going from an 8-10 to a 4-10 usually means a higher impedance which with a solid state amp can cost you another 3dB. Your Ampeg fridge is 4 ohms, most 4-10s are 8 ohm so they can be run together as a 4 ohm load.


Then when that becomes too big and heavy, it’s time for a 3-10

Most of the time I play a Peavey VB-2 these days. 225w tube amp. I have the master volume at 6 and gain at 4 when playing the 810, so I think I could still push it some and retain my clean sound.

 

[Ondoval]

It depends on which 410. What are you going with?

I havent given that much thought. I just want something smaller atm. Seems the ampeg 410HE is what people recommend here. There's one used for 350$ on my market.

 

[InhumanResource]

I havent given that much thought. I just want something smaller atm. Seems the ampeg 410HE is what people recommend here. There's one used for 350$ on my market.

They’re fine cabinets. I had one for a while but eventually added a second as I found the single cabinet sounded thin. Two of them together was magic!

 

[Zbysek]

I have an ampeg 810 cab. For various reasons I'm considering selling it and buying a 410.

How much loss of perceived volume should I expect? I have a drummer with very heavy hands.

If you buy a high-quality cab, like Barefaced for example, you don't need to experience a loss of volume.

Ampeg 810E/AV has sensitivity 100 db and Maximum SPL 130db.

Barefaced Four10 has 101 db sensitivity and Maximum output 131 db.

Four10

Like those early 4x10"s the Barefaced Four10 makes a hell of a lot of noise with very little power into it - it's super efficient. Rather than make a pastiche of those old cabs we've thrown a load of brain power and R&D effort at this design, keeping the good stuff like tone and loudness and...

barefacedaudio.com

https://ampeg.com/pdf/SVT810EAV.pdf

 

[bassmanacometh]

I have an ampeg 810 cab. For various reasons I'm considering selling it and buying a 410.

How much loss of perceived volume should I expect? I have a drummer with very heavy hands.

ohms 8 will be loud 4 will be louder and cleaner go with 4

 

[/\/\3phist0]

well, doubling the speakers is +2-3dB, other things equal.

but the perceived volume for you might be more if the 410 will be firing at your knees. it would still be pretty loud for everyone else, but not just near the cab. to get around this you could elevate the cab.

frankly a vertical stack of two vertical 210s is the best of two worlds: it's as tall as a 810 (so you can hear it better) and it's a half of it, but like split not horizontally, but vertically, that makes a better horizontal dispersion on stage.

I had a Revsound vertical 410.
One of the best cabs I’ve owned.

 

[bassmanacometh]

Unless you are playing large stages or playing outdoor gigs without front of house, a 410 should be more than sufficient IMHO.

AGREED ! use a black milk crate to put it on so you don't have it projecting your ankles.

If you are currently pushing the 810 to its' max volume potential there will be a significant difference, but otherwise you probably won't have an issue, especially if you can tilt or elevate the 410. Another vote for a pair of vertically stacked 210s here.

like the Canadian content membership there in your club I used a 410 swr goliath for 25 yrs it was great for any place I played. I recently got the 210 pre fender swr jr I love it. I'm old now so cab weight is an issue. May look into lighter new gear thats out there