4x10 + 4x10, or 4x10 + 1x15???

[WokenDeer]

I'm much happier with my 810 than when I had a 15 and a 410. Both were same company but having all tens sounds perfect. I thought I would lose lows, but like everyone says. It doesn't work that way. I feel my tone is thicker and better than ever. With just a few 10s!

 

[tjh]

4x10 + 4x10 + 4x10 + 1x15 = 135 ... about the # of times this has come up .. lots of search info available on this ??

 

[WokenDeer]

Lol, nice.

 

[Meddle]

4x15 + 1x18. Live a little.

 

[Febs]

Stumbo's advice to get a 1x15 was not directed to the OP, who has a 4x10, but to another poster who already has a 1x15.

 

[sokolasty]

I'd test a 115+410 rig and then 410+410. It's the only way to check whether you - and you bandmates - like it or not. I don't understand "no mixing drivers" rule. We have hi-fi and bass-hi-fi (fEearful, Mesa 1516 etc) cabs which have different drivers in one box and people are happy, haven't we?

 

[Febs]

I'd test a 115+410 rig and then 410+410. It's the only way to check whether you - and you bandmates - like it or not. I don't understand "no mixing drivers" rule. We have hi-fi and bass-hi-fi (fEearful, Mesa 1516 etc) cabs which have different drivers in one box and people are happy, haven't we?

Yes, but those examples have crossovers so that each driver is handling specific frequencies.

 

[foxbass58]

I used a pr of TVX410's for a while. Nice sound. Very full bass.
Until I discovered a single Eden 410 was actually better and thus one less box to load....

Seriously tho, go with 810 for that rock God look on stage for as long as your back will take it! Mixing a 15 in will IMHO muddy the sound a little. Tens are more focussed and seem to project into a room a little better.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I'd test a 115+410 rig and then 410+410. It's the only way to check whether you - and you bandmates - like it or not. I don't understand "no mixing drivers" rule. We have hi-fi and bass-hi-fi (fEearful, Mesa 1516 etc) cabs which have different drivers in one box and people are happy, haven't we?

Yes, but those examples have crossovers so that each driver is handling specific frequencies.

To be fair the fEARful cabs use a passive cross over. Im not sure the mesa cabs do. If you take a look at the PH1000, its a perfect example of engineering by looks rather than by design or performance. Mesa makes some great sounding cabs, but they are not the ones that have different full range drivers in them.

 

[klejst]

There is no hiding the fact there is not much love on here (and perhaps in general in the bass community) for pairing a 4x10 and 1x15, however people do do it and if it works out for them then great...perhaps it would for you. However my advice too is to pair two of the same cabs together if you can, so go for the 4x10. But of course if you will be using the cabinets separately as in the 4x10 for medium size gigs and the 1x15 for smaller gigs you have the ability to do that. Same with two separate 4x10's where you take both to the large gig and one to medium sized gig...both situations you have that flexibility with the cabs.

 

[hags2k]

read through some of the endless threads (search bill fitzmaurice for some merciless but accurate science); upshot is that mis-matched cabs can be OK, but can also do weird stuff where you get holes in the frequency response from the phase being different over different frequencies.

matching good cabs reinforce each other and are a guaranteed winner, so that's the best way to go when in doubt.

biamping is weird because once you cross over to take the lows out of one bass cab, it no longer has any point being a bass cab; you could replace it with a little midrange driver and actually do better. (search fEARful)

companies show mixed stacks because they look good in catalogs and people (including famous rock stars) hear with their eyes and think "the big speaker handles the lows while the little speakers handle the highs, so why not put the two together?" and buy that; cab companies are happy to sell what people buy.

Oh good grief. I did some searching and spent HOURS last night reading up on cabs, audio engineering, and some really adamant arguments about speaker drivers.

I see your point - the cab mixing issue was apparently discussed to death. Also, I really want a fEarful cab now...

I'm glad I read all this, though. I'd toyed with getting another cab to go with my Genz 2x12. Looks like if I go that route, I'll just get another 2x12. I like easy decisions

 

[hags2k]

To be fair the fEARful cabs use a passive cross over.

I was initially confused about this as well - I was thinking that "hey, tons of high quality speakers have multiple drivers of different sizes", but it didn't hit me until after a bit of reading that there is a difference between sending identical signals to multiple drivers/cabs and sending specific frequencies to different drivers via crossovers.

 

[ColonelZulu]

Hate to add confusion, but I am happy with a 210 + 112. I have another 210 that I can use if I need.

I think that's plenty of air for any medium sized club. Any bigger and we are talking about a sound system.

Save your back and your back seat.

 

[tdub0199]

OP, ultimately if you can find a 410 & 115 that doesn't have phasing issues then I say go for it if it sounds good to you....

 

[capncal]

this is interesting. i always thought you were SUPPOSED to pair a 410 with a 115. isn't that they way Ashdown has been marketing their new blue line or whatever? and Ampeg makes their 115 to go with the new 410 HF cabs?

i've just got a 410 now and have been looking for a decent used 115 to pair with it. maybe i'll start looking for another 410....

 

[Bass_Pounder]

OP, ultimately if you can find a 410 & 115 that doesn't have phasing issues then I say go for it if it sounds good to you....

It's not just phasing issues.

You also need to find a "super 15" that can match the displacement and sensitivity of the 4X10 or it will still be the weakest link and prone to blowing.

 

[zfunkman]

No brainer. Get the 2 4x10s.

 

[makohund]

Pont 1. Two cabs usually sound better than one cab because louder is always bigger.

Point 2. It's possible for mainstream manufacturers to investigate the phase response of all their speakers and come up with cabs that phase together correctly across the whole bass range, but no mean feat.

Two Genz cabs are claimed by a Genz engineer on here to always sound great together. Presumeably only cabs of concurrent design series carry this claim.

When you look at some of the design howlers that make it into production from some mainstream manufacturers you kinda doubt they looked into phase response at all, probably due to point 1.

Point 3, any two identical cabs give you more of what you like, no question.

Point 4, any two non matched cabs may sound ok together.

Point 5, lots of guys mix cabs and like the results, like to tell the world about it.

Point 6, lots of guys stopped mixing cabs, got better results and like to tell the world about it.

Give this man a sticky, so it can be linked to immediately every single time the issue comes up.

Covers almost all of the important stuff:

- why it usually isn't a good idea
- why it is rare, but possible for it to work well, while common for it to at least sound "better" than either cab alone
- why some like it even when it's a bad match, and get grumpy when they come across recommendations against it

All that's left is details:

- power handling/output mismatch
- frequency response & driver size mythology
- they are shown/seen together for aesthetic reasons, not sound reasons
- the "good" mixed driver cabs are completely different designs... multiway systems with passive crossovers, using non-fullrange drivers

 

[iualum]

2x215. You select either one of the 2 best full-range 15s.

 

[makohund]

this is interesting. i always thought you were SUPPOSED to pair a 410 with a 115. isn't that they way Ashdown has been marketing their new blue line or whatever? and Ampeg makes their 115 to go with the new 410 HF cabs?

They show them that way because

1. They make a 4x10 cab for people who like 4x10s, and want you to see it.
2. They make a 1x15 cab for people who like 1x15s, and want you to see it.
3. Stacking them and taking a picture kills both birds with the same stone.
4. It looks pretty dang cool that way, too.
5. They don't mind that the image supports driver size mythologies, because they'll benefit monetarily from those that buy into that.

(Explanation of #5... If the customer buys the 4x10 first, the 1x15 isn't really worth adding. So if they add one anyway, that's like a free bonus sale. If the customer buys the 15 first, it'd be better for them to get another one. But if they buy the 4x10 instead, they'll probably make a little more money off of it.)

Of course there may be exceptions where the manufacturer has taken the time & trouble to design good acoustic and electrically matching sets. This is a rare thing, and a credit to those that go that extra mile. I think much rarer than one might assume based on what they see marketed. Having the same name, same look, and being in the same "line/family" from the same manufacturer is by NO means a guarantee of it. Not even close.