4x10 and 4x12

[GrapeBass]

Why is the 4x10 made more for bass than for guitar, but the 4x12 is more for guitar?

IME - Voicing. To me, 12s seem to project 'vocal' qualities better than 10s or 15s, more suited for that range. That's not to say basses shouldn't use 12s, many players do and sound awesome.

 

[Marko 1]

Thank you, but I was hoping to hear from someone that knew what they were talking about. Maybe you haven't seen some bass players with Marshall 4x12s and getting good lows nor Lemmy's two 4x15s.

I haven't seen that, and I'd have to see it to believe it, at least at any volume.

I guess it would be a matter of what "good lows" mean to ya.

And what little I've heard from Lemmy's rig,

his bass tone was horrible for bass tone. imo.

 

[Phaidrus]

Not all of Lemmy's bassing was chords

I suppose I've missed the Motörhead tracks with actual basslines. Be that as it may, his approach to bass playing and to bass tone is probably rather niche despite the popularity of the band and of himself personally.

 

[bassinflorida]

Thank you, but I was hoping to hear from someone that knew what they were talking about. Maybe you haven't seen some bass players with Marshall 4x12s and getting good lows nor Lemmy's two 4x15s.

Actually Redbrangus knows exactly what he's talking about.

 

[Wisebass]

Hi mickster

Why is the 4x10 made more for bass than for guitar, but the 4x12 is more for guitar?

Why does the 412 Marshal guitar cab come with those plastic casters?

Because you need two guitarists to carry one cab.

one factor might be that an enclosure needs to be pretty large (in internal volume) to adequately accommodate four 12" drivers. That's not an issue with a guitar cab.

Why don't they sell 412 bass cabs with these plastic casters?

Because four plastic casters won't do the job!

It needs a bassist to lift that heavy sucker!


Weight is a point 410s are heavy enough!


greetings

Wise

 

[Grinderman]

I don't know anything so my perceptions could be off base about the reasons and timeline of developments.

Weren't the first 10" drivers widely used for bass in sealed Ampeg 810 flatbacks, beginning in '69?

Weren't those drivers lighter and faster to deliver tighter transient response?

Didn't the sealed Ampeg 810e "fridge" become the most popular single bass cabinet design of all time and essentially copied by many others?

Didn't Eminence Speaker engineer increasingly efficient 10" bass drivers throughout the '70s, '80s, '90s, and since?

Didn't increases in 10" driver efficiency and consumer perceptions and demand in the early '90s lead to companies essentially cutting the 810 fridge package in half making 410 cabs, mostly in vented format? Made with the option to stack.

The classic Marshall, Hiwatt, Orange, Park, Sunn, etc 412 guitar cabs that originated from the mid-1960s--the cabinets themselves, not the drivers--have barely evolved at all since then, correct?

For their typical use or purpose, isn't the transient response of a 300-watt 6-valve Ampeg bass amp different than that of a 50 or 100 watt Marshall guitar amp head?

 

[Grinderman]

It's because the 8x10 bass cab was what bassists would play in bands where the guitarists used 4x12 guitar cabs (ideally, multiple 8x10). 4x10 cabs were cut-down versions.

Lemmy was doing his thing, for sure, but Lemmy represented less than one tenth of one percent of the number of professional bassists at that time, and should be considered an outlier.

Yeah, I was going to say Lemmy was an edge case; noise in the sample. A good sounding noise but statistical noise nonetheless.

 

[InkCow]

I’m not sure how Lemmy is even relevant to the question though.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I have difficulty understanding why a 4 x anything exists, but one factor might be that an enclosure needs to be pretty large (in internal volume) to adequately accommodate four 12" drivers. That's not an issue with a guitar cab.

Good point. 4 of anything??? I think for the most part we are at more than one of anything is ridiculous, and soon to be none of anything being a requirement . LOL!

Having grown up in the era of 8 of everything, I miss not having to play “in concert” where you had a responsibility to play in balance with the ensemble (a lost art), with dynamics or get fired.

 

[Marko 1]

I’m not sure how Lemmy is even relevant to the question though.

Post #7.

 

[andrus108]

I think a 4x12 for a bass would be a success if it was made in a fridge-type cab that was essentially two diagonal 2x12 glued together. Four neo speakers would cut the weight considerably compared to eight.

While we're at it, also moving 4x10s to this format (two diagonal 2x10s in a mini fridge) would probably make a great single cab that was easily transportable, just like your holiday wheeled bag.

Instead, there is constantly talk of where to get a lightweight single cab, then turns out that one cab is not enough, so you get a second, but then how do you get two to the venue in one trip, etc. etc. etc.......

 

[Tassieviking]

I want to know why Black Sabbath didn't use coffins to make their cabs, Have the pallbearers walk in and stand the coffins up, open the lid to reveal the speakers.
And the doomer and metal players could do the same, just don't use them in church gigs.
I guess the nice wood coffins with all the shiny brass I am picturing would cost too much.

 

[Marko 1]

I think a 4x12 for a bass would be a success if it was made in a fridge-type cab that was essentially two diagonal 2x12 glued together. Four neo speakers would cut the weight considerably compared to eight.

~95lbs

 

[InkCow]

Post #7.

Yeah, that’s what I’m referring to: what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Marko 1]

Yeah, that’s what I’m referring to: what does that have to do with anything?

Just the OP suggesting that a 4x12 guitar cab works well for bass...

while saying the other guy didn't know what he was talking about.

 

[pepj]

412 is a 60's thing when you need 4 speakers rated around 30watts per chassis to handle the higher wattage demand of the time.

410 is a far later thing and you could expect RMS figures around 150w per chassis to match 400w type amps.
People wanted better responses than you traditionally got from older 12 and 15's and these 10's at least offered more power.

I had a 415 which was only rated at 200w and you had to go to exotic names like JBL, Altec and Gauss to get higher power versions..and they were a distinct luxury cost.

 

[themickster]

Yeah, that’s what I’m referring to: what does that have to do with anything?

It's given you something to whine about, so be happy. Or not.

 

[themickster]

I want to know why Black Sabbath didn't use coffins to make their cabs, Have the pallbearers walk in and stand the coffins up, open the lid to reveal the speakers.
And the doomer and metal players could do the same, just don't use them in church gigs.
I guess the nice wood coffins with all the shiny brass I am picturing would cost too much.

You thought of it; go for it.

 

[InkCow]

But to the original question, this is almost certainly because when the original patterns for guitar and bass cabinets were being made, the only speaker choices were off the shelf Jensens, and Electro Voices, and Eminences, etc. They weren’t getting custom drivers and didn’t really understand the physics involved to contract them in the first place. 15” speakers seemed to work better with bass, so keep sticking them in boxes of various different dimensions and see what works.

Ampeg eventually shoved a bunch of 10” drivers in a box and we had the second bass design pattern. Eventually the physics were understood, but patterns and supply chains were already established by that point.

 

[themickster]

Didn't the sealed Ampeg 810e "fridge" become the most popular single bass cabinet design of all time?

No.