• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

4x10 and 4x12

#42
InkCow said:
But to the original question, this is almost certainly because when the original patterns for guitar and bass cabinets were being made, the only speaker choices were off the shelf Jensens, and Electro Voices, and Eminences, etc. They weren’t getting custom drivers and didn’t really understand the physics involved to contract them in the first place. 15” speakers seemed to work better with bass, so keep sticking them in boxes of various different dimensions and see what works.

Ampeg eventually shoved a bunch of 10” drivers in a box and we had the second bass design pattern. Eventually the physics were understood, but patterns and supply chains were already established by that point.
Click to expand...
I left out 18s! How could I forget my old Peavey folded horn 18?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla, Drredplate, mikewalker and 1 other person
#45
Grinderman said:
What make and model 8 x 10" bass cab, or any other bass cab format of that level of power handling and output for that matter, has outsold it?
Click to expand...
I don’t think any single model of any bass cabinet has outsold it simply due to the fact that I don’t think any other single model of bass cabinet has had as long of a production run. You’re almost certainly right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla
#46
themickster said:
You said 'most popular single bass cabinet design', not 'most popular single 8x10 bass cabinet design'. I'm not about to argue with someone that can't even agree with himself.
Click to expand...



Excuse me, let's just make this as wide open and put this in the least pedantic possible way, name ANY single model of the bass cab of which more have been made and sold than the Ampeg 810, in the last 55 years or 155 years.

You flatly responded with a "No". You can qualify your answer however you wish. Or don't.

BTW, there's a difference between saying and asking a question--the clue is the question mark.
 
Last edited:
#47
themickster said:
Thank you, but I was hoping to hear from someone that knew what they were talking about. Maybe you haven't seen some bass players with Marshall 4x12s and getting good lows nor Lemmy's two 4x15s.
Click to expand...

themickster said:
It's given you something to whine about, so be happy. Or not.
Click to expand...

themickster said:
You said 'most popular single bass cabinet design', not 'most popular single 8x10 bass cabinet design'. I'm not about to argue with someone that can't even agree with himself.
Click to expand...

Interesting to look at those three grouped together.

And yet everyone else in the thread is politely discussing bass cabinet configurations.

So much for TB being a culture of elitist gatekeeping.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla, wintremute, Phaidrus and 5 others
#49
I'm no acoustics engineer but from what little I've read it seems a 4x12 properly designed for bass response might be pretty big. Anyone who knows is welcome to chime in. Like I said, I'm not sure. My typical rigs, playing in bars with PA's I don't think could adequately manage bass guitar (the PA's aren't mine so I don't ask, but will accept if offered) are: 1x12 or 2x10. I can add a 2x10 or 1x15 as well. The 2x10 ext is a Genz Benz, and it's a pretty big, ported cab. The 1x15 is a sealed box about 18" square with a 250W bass driver. My "research" revealed that a properly ported cab would be considerably larger. And the physics is beyond daunting! The trade-off was less low end response in the sealed cab. I'm OK with that.

As far as Marshalls and Lemmy and all that: If I want to sound like Lemmy I can buy a Marshall stack, have the head modded to "Murder" specs, buy a Ric, and give it my best shot. But never sound like much else... :bored: Or - I could get an amp/cab simulator and then I could make other bass noises, too! :thumbsup:

As for Marshall bass amplification: I once opened for a legendary British guitarist at a local venue here. During set-up I chatted with the bass tech, noting that I hadn't seen many Marshall bass rigs (they brought them from the UK). He replied "yeah, I wish he'd get rid of it, it's a piece of junk" or words to that effect. I kinda took that to heart.

The Bar Band Bassman
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikewalker, Phaidrus and Auer
#55
Had a Trace Elliot V-Type full stack in the 90s. 2 4x12 cabs. Looked like a big ugly green guitar full stack if you didnt pay attention.

Had most of the other bass players in that lock out facility waiting for us to finish so they could try my rig out at some point. Watched them run experiments of trying my head with their cabs, their head with my cabs, etc. No one could really explain why, but it was universally agreed I had the best sounding rig in that place hands down.

I cant answer OP's why, I can only speak to what I have experienced. Aint nuthin wrong with 4x12 cabs for bass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikewalker, dutchwife, InkCow and 2 others
#57
And it’s not as though the sheer physical size of bass cabinets back in the day wasn’t a problem: it sucked. My aforementioned Peavey folded horn had to be stored in an attic, up a pull down folding ladder, along with my Traynor YBA-3, after every rehearsal.

I had to replace the back window of my Dodge Colt because I didn’t put it the back in the one exact right way one time and it broke out the glass when I closed the hatch.

Nobody enjoyed moving an 8x10, 1820, or a 2x15. A 4x12 that could handle bass probably wouldn’t have fit in my Colt in the first place!
 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla, mikewalker and mexicanyella
#58
Just to be clear, I don't think that there aren't some good 412 bass cabs, just that it hasn't been popular format because of the trade-offs between size and LF performance. Also, the poor design and performance of some manufacturer's offerings haven't helped anything. TBH, I think a 412 cab, properly executed, is a more sound engineering concept than an 810. I like the suggestion of them being taller and slimmer, rather than shorter and deeper, if you're only going to have one big cab.

When Fender initially stuck four 10s in the early Bassman, it was a way to dissipate power more safely than the original 115s, which didn't hold up: four voice coils are better than one, in that regard. [They didn't address the obvious shortcoming of it being open-backed. :facepalm: ] I suspect the same "engineering" influenced Ampeg's decision to stuff eight 10s into the SVT cab -- they needed that many voice coils to dissipate all that power. Maybe they would have done something different if there had been 100-watt drivers available at the time.

Edit: Of course, being huge was a plus for a guitar amp in 1969. :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bassdirty, Bill Whitehurst, mikewalker and 2 others
#60
The band Red Fang uses old Sunn Beta Lead amp heads driving 4 x 12 guitar cabs (Orange, last I knew) for both guitar and bass. Like, three of the same rig up there on stage. They make it work, and it sounds distinctive.

BUT their bass player plays hard with a pick, chording a lot, and it’s dirty and grindy and does not have a lot of low end. It’s less about counterpoint to the guitars or tying drums and melody together, and more about merging with the guitars for a massive blast of sound.

Another example to think about is NoMeansNo: the bassist played a Marshall hybrid bass head into a 4 x 12 Marshall guitar cab, and it was a bunch of aggressive dirty riffing (and cool as hell) but it worked because he had a sparse arrangement to fit it all in, despite being bass-reproduction-limited by the cab.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mikewalker, Deleted member 365158, Auer and 1 other person

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back