LOL, yep!!!! I broke a back window with a 2x15 cab once same way. SO mad at myself, just had to push it in a bit further.
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4x10 and 4x12
- Thread starter themickster
- Start date
I've used 12" speakers since the 80s when I had a 4x12" Kustom tuck&roll loaded with EVM-12L (with a 1x18" PA sub in the mix)... graduated to a 1x12" Bag End sitting on a 1x15" Bag End... over time I discovered I liked the voicing of the S12 over the S15. When I came back to BE, and wanted 2 drivers so I picked up a D12. When I geared up for gigging again, I picked up a second one! I do plan an other S12 like I used in the 90s so I have the choice of 1, 2, or 4 drivers 
Up a pull-down attic ladder?!?
That sounds really unpleasant.
I have just revised how I feel about moving my Hartke 4 x 10 up or down a short flight of steps.
Nice rig!
I've used 12" speakers since the 80s when I had a 4x12" Kustom tuck&roll loaded with EVM-12L (with a 1x18" PA sub in the mix)... graduated to a 1x12" Bag End sitting on a 1x15" Bag End... over time I discovered I liked the voicing of the S12 over the S15. When I came back to BE, and wanted 2 drivers so I picked up a D12. When I geared up for gigging again, I picked up a second one! I do plan an other S12 like I used in the 90s so I have the choice of 1, 2, or 4 drivers
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I hated it at the time and 35 years later, I would have a pretty low tolerance for your situation too!
Yep-
Dude's in a mood today...
At first, I read the OP as a question from a standpoint of genuine interest, open to thoughtful discussion.
Now I think the question is why do they care?
Either way, he's the one who wrote the ambiguous OP and then has a weird attitude when others don't discuss it the way he wants.
Very strange...
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Back in the '80s I had a secondhand "guitar" cab, a HiWatt 4x12. It was in good condition and worked fine but I decided to sell it in order to purchase a proper bass cab, a Marshall JCM800 Bass Series.
I hated it.
It was soon jettisoned in favour of a Trace Elliot rig with a ported 1x15, ported 4x10 and a 4x5 Bright Box. When I couldn't face dragging all the gear around for a small gig I'd just use the 4x10. That was my conversion from using 12 inch speakers for bass; 10 inch just sounded better. I didn't care why!
I hated it.
It was soon jettisoned in favour of a Trace Elliot rig with a ported 1x15, ported 4x10 and a 4x5 Bright Box. When I couldn't face dragging all the gear around for a small gig I'd just use the 4x10. That was my conversion from using 12 inch speakers for bass; 10 inch just sounded better. I didn't care why!
I watched this a few days ago, it's sort of relevant and low-key interesting.
There are 410s made specifically for bass. There are also 412s made specifically for bass.
The reason more 410s are made specifically for bass is because more bass players buy 410s...ultimately the market responds to demand. AFAIK, the bass player's fascination with 10s probably started withe the Ampeg SVT. I like the amp, but don't care for the 810 personally.
For the record I don't own a 410, or any bass cab with 10s for that matter. I do own quite a few cabs with 12s: 1. GK 700RB/112 combo. 2. Four Genz Benz 1288T Uber Quads, 3. Pair of custom LDS cabs loaded with JBL 2206. Other bass cabs I own: 1. 215 (Greenboy Dually), 2. Pair of small cabs loaded with Electro Voice EVM18Bs, 3. Pair of huge cabs loaded with EVM18Bs.
You can also buy bass cabs with 5's or 8's.
IMHO buy what you like.
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I'm going to generalize for brevity. Yes, there were always exceptions to the rule, but since you asked the question it comes down to history. Please don't get into the argument about the sound not having to do with speaker size because that wasn't the thought process in the 70s/80's. There was a lot less PA support and modelers didn't exist.
The 810, which started with the Ampeg SVT, was the industry standard in the 70's. 810s were a lot tighter (less woofy) than the 215 which was more of a 60's early 70's thing. However, they didn't call 810s "Fridges" for nothing, so bass amp manufacturers were all trying to get that Ampeg 810 sound with 4 speakers. Bassists started using 410s because speakers were becoming more efficient (bigger magnets) and it was half the size of an 810. There were bassists that used a 412 back in the day (Jack Bruce, Lemmy) but they were generally considered "Honky", and less efficient in the low end. Back in the club days the 410 was somewhat compact, sounded amazing and didn't sound hollow like a 412. The 412 became the standard for guitar because of Marshall and everyone wanting to sound like Hendrix/Clapton/Page and those mid range frequencies gave guitarists what they wanted. Nothing sounded better than a 100 watt Marshall with a 412 cab, even if it was in a 70 seat venue with 12 people. In the club scene, a lot of guitarists went down to a 212 (Jazz Chorus or a Fender Twin).
Now, with Neo speakers, cab and speaker advancement and modelers along with more PA support, you can get away with a 210 or a 112, guitarists can go to a 112 and have less gear and better sound.
The 810, which started with the Ampeg SVT, was the industry standard in the 70's. 810s were a lot tighter (less woofy) than the 215 which was more of a 60's early 70's thing. However, they didn't call 810s "Fridges" for nothing, so bass amp manufacturers were all trying to get that Ampeg 810 sound with 4 speakers. Bassists started using 410s because speakers were becoming more efficient (bigger magnets) and it was half the size of an 810. There were bassists that used a 412 back in the day (Jack Bruce, Lemmy) but they were generally considered "Honky", and less efficient in the low end. Back in the club days the 410 was somewhat compact, sounded amazing and didn't sound hollow like a 412. The 412 became the standard for guitar because of Marshall and everyone wanting to sound like Hendrix/Clapton/Page and those mid range frequencies gave guitarists what they wanted. Nothing sounded better than a 100 watt Marshall with a 412 cab, even if it was in a 70 seat venue with 12 people. In the club scene, a lot of guitarists went down to a 212 (Jazz Chorus or a Fender Twin).
Now, with Neo speakers, cab and speaker advancement and modelers along with more PA support, you can get away with a 210 or a 112, guitarists can go to a 112 and have less gear and better sound.
Well the answere would probably be the same. Are you a troll? Seriously? Asking because people have given you the exact answers to your original question. The way you respond on the other hand seems you only did so to argue. You're the only one arguing here. I thought this kind of behavior was squashed on this site during the early 2000's influx of kids.
Easy fix. Don't ask questions if you don't want answers? Sorry the proper answers didn't fit your preconceived notion?
Or not....
While I do think the Ampeg 810 started the tradition, because they popularized 10s...they were no actually the first.
Pretty sure Traynor's YC-810 (Big B) predated the Ampeg design by a few years.
I actually learned to play through one of these and then later bought an MTI era SVT with the matching 810. I preferred the sound of the Traynor as it had sweeter mids and a bit more HF extension. The Ampeg was a bit fuller down low, but to my ears, every one I have played sounded muffled/muddy...and no amount of EQ can make it produce a tone I like.
Back in the seventies I bought used a 412 cab and amp made by the Sound Music Corp. NYC. It was a closed cab and it was huge. The amp was solid-state and loud AF. It was covered in gray Tolex. I’ve never known if it was a guitar or bass amp (I used it for both) because the company is long gone and I can’t find anything on the web about it. Anybody ever heard of Sound Music Corp?
I don't have a scientific explanation, but may have a practical one. Though, I want to say, when people start expertising about it makes me wonder.
Guitars tend to not have much low end. Also guitars don't require the same amount of power to generate sound level than basses do. From a marketing standpoint, it would be much easier to sell a "larger", 12" speaker than a "smaller", 10" or 8" speaker, even though there is no need for a larger speaker to make clear, loud sound. No matter that the 12" speaker is only rated for 35 or 50 watts and might weigh only a couple of pounds (I haven't weighed one so....). Bass speakers are generally rated for much more power and weigh 10 - 15 pounds or more.
Basses require, on average, 3x more power to generate the same sound level than guitars. This is just a general rule as the power required is absolutely dependent on speaker efficiency, but I who wants to go over formulas when arguing on the internet? This means a heavier magnet (someone explained to me this is also called a "motor"). A properly engineered cab needs a certain amount of volume. A 410 bass cabinet already has 4, heavy magnets. If you increase that to a 412 for bass, you now have a a 120lb (my estimation based on my 98lb 410 cabs) to lug around. Before anyone begins with the lightweight speaker magnets....that technology wasn't available in the 60's and 70's when these 410 and 412 (810) cabs were being developed.
To sum it up, marketing and tradition. People and guitarists listen with their eyes. A 412 cab must sound louder and heavier than a 410, so I must have it for my "tone". So what that the cab is ginormous, it still doesn't weigh as much as a "smaller" bass cab. Few people check out a bassist's rig, except other bassists and a few other musician types. While it has the capability to keep up with the guitar, it isn't as heavy as a bass 412 or.....dare I.... a 415 cab. Power handling and sound quality isn't about about speaker size as it is about quality of materials, quality of construction and the engineering. Look at the Phil Jone Bass cabs loaded with the 8" speakers.
Just my thoughts.
Guitars tend to not have much low end. Also guitars don't require the same amount of power to generate sound level than basses do. From a marketing standpoint, it would be much easier to sell a "larger", 12" speaker than a "smaller", 10" or 8" speaker, even though there is no need for a larger speaker to make clear, loud sound. No matter that the 12" speaker is only rated for 35 or 50 watts and might weigh only a couple of pounds (I haven't weighed one so....). Bass speakers are generally rated for much more power and weigh 10 - 15 pounds or more.
Basses require, on average, 3x more power to generate the same sound level than guitars. This is just a general rule as the power required is absolutely dependent on speaker efficiency, but I who wants to go over formulas when arguing on the internet? This means a heavier magnet (someone explained to me this is also called a "motor"). A properly engineered cab needs a certain amount of volume. A 410 bass cabinet already has 4, heavy magnets. If you increase that to a 412 for bass, you now have a a 120lb (my estimation based on my 98lb 410 cabs) to lug around. Before anyone begins with the lightweight speaker magnets....that technology wasn't available in the 60's and 70's when these 410 and 412 (810) cabs were being developed.
To sum it up, marketing and tradition. People and guitarists listen with their eyes. A 412 cab must sound louder and heavier than a 410, so I must have it for my "tone". So what that the cab is ginormous, it still doesn't weigh as much as a "smaller" bass cab. Few people check out a bassist's rig, except other bassists and a few other musician types. While it has the capability to keep up with the guitar, it isn't as heavy as a bass 412 or.....dare I.... a 415 cab. Power handling and sound quality isn't about about speaker size as it is about quality of materials, quality of construction and the engineering. Look at the Phil Jone Bass cabs loaded with the 8" speakers.
Just my thoughts.
While I do think the Ampeg 810 started the tradition, because they popularized 10s...they were no actually the first.
Pretty sure Traynor's YC-810 (Big B) predated the Ampeg design by a few years.
I actually learned to play through one of these and then later bought an MTI era SVT with the matching 810. I preferred the sound of the Traynor as it had sweeter mids and a bit more HF extension. The Ampeg was a bit fuller down low, but to my ears, every one I have played sounded muffled/muddy...and no amount of EQ can make it produce a tone I like.
These sound pretty amazing for guitar as well.
Next one I see come up for sale around me I'm buying.
