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5-4-1 What key is it?
- Thread starter bizzaro
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I know the song, but its all the talk in this thread that confuses me. Its ok, I am going to take some theory courses in a while, so I will wait till then to really worry about this stuff
I wasn't trying to incite a riot, but wrongly assumed that for a learned musician there would be a simple answer to this question. And modes are, in my opinion, an acceptable answer. I really didn't think a simple rock song could be so controversial in it's analisis. Some would demand the question to be quailified in the context of purpose. It is a "simple" inquiry
It is a simple song. I know how to play it. I wondered what key it was in due to the chords used and the movement of the song.
It is a simple song. I know how to play it. I wondered what key it was in due to the chords used and the movement of the song.
The only way this thread would be more ironic is if it was about a ramones three cord romp.
The song is deffintetly in C IF any of you listened to the song for 30 secs then turned off the cd and sang home you would sing "C" thats how you tell what keys its in.Sometimes its slightly obscured. Sometmes you have to wait for it.Use the force,Trust you ear, turn your brain off and sing the most in sounding note you can come up with it will probally be the root of what key the tunes in.
Its I7/flatVII7/IV7/I7
Thats a tonic cord followed by 2 two cords with subdominant function,resolving back to the tonic.Repeat.
The Flat seven 7 cord (yes it should be called that there are minor scales with a natural 7th) comes from natural minor. The IV7 cord could be thought of coming from the melodic minor.The IV/I resolution is a OLD school cadence that comes from church its called the Plagel cadence (think Aaa--MEN).
AJ
The song is deffintetly in C IF any of you listened to the song for 30 secs then turned off the cd and sang home you would sing "C" thats how you tell what keys its in.Sometimes its slightly obscured. Sometmes you have to wait for it.Use the force,Trust you ear, turn your brain off and sing the most in sounding note you can come up with it will probally be the root of what key the tunes in.
Its I7/flatVII7/IV7/I7
Thats a tonic cord followed by 2 two cords with subdominant function,resolving back to the tonic.Repeat.
The Flat seven 7 cord (yes it should be called that there are minor scales with a natural 7th) comes from natural minor. The IV7 cord could be thought of coming from the melodic minor.The IV/I resolution is a OLD school cadence that comes from church its called the Plagel cadence (think Aaa--MEN).
AJ
Sitting here listening to the song, I can tell you for certain that if you listen to the piano in particular, the progression is C7 - Bb7 - F7 - C7.
Does conventional major/minor tonality or even modality apply to this entire song? Not that I can tell.
C-E-G-Bb, then Bb-D-F-Ab, then F-A-C-Eb, then C-E-G-Bb. Going from the second chord to the third, you've got to flatten the A from the second chord and the E from the first chord, so that's two extra accidentals even if you put it in C dorian. Most people would tend to think of it in C, not necessarily C major but C as the tonal centre. A lot of rock is like this, and it doesn't really need to be argued over.
In layman's terms, the damn thing is in C, regardless of theory nitpicking. Tell me to play it in F and you'll get something particularly stupid sounding when played with the rest of the band. This isn't Stravinsky, it's BTO and there's no need for polytonality.
That's your answer.
Does conventional major/minor tonality or even modality apply to this entire song? Not that I can tell.
C-E-G-Bb, then Bb-D-F-Ab, then F-A-C-Eb, then C-E-G-Bb. Going from the second chord to the third, you've got to flatten the A from the second chord and the E from the first chord, so that's two extra accidentals even if you put it in C dorian. Most people would tend to think of it in C, not necessarily C major but C as the tonal centre. A lot of rock is like this, and it doesn't really need to be argued over.
In layman's terms, the damn thing is in C, regardless of theory nitpicking. Tell me to play it in F and you'll get something particularly stupid sounding when played with the rest of the band. This isn't Stravinsky, it's BTO and there's no need for polytonality.
That's your answer.
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
I've been saying exactly that for the last 5 or 6 pages and getting a lot of flack for it!!
Probably because you're not saying the rest of what he said:
"C-E-G-Bb, then Bb-D-F-Ab, then F-A-C-Eb, then C-E-G-Bb. Going from the second chord to the third, you've got to flatten the A from the second chord and the E from the first chord, so that's two extra accidentals even if you put it in C dorian. Most people would tend to think of it in C, not necessarily C major but C as the tonal centre. A lot of rock is like this, and it doesn't really need to be argued over.
In layman's terms, the damn thing is in C, regardless of theory nitpicking. Tell me to play it in F and you'll get something particularly stupid sounding when played with the rest of the band. This isn't Stravinsky, it's BTO and there's no need for polytonality.
That's your answer."He's saying it's in C, Bruce. Are you saying that now?
Originally posted by Brad Johnson
He's saying it's in C, Bruce. Are you saying that now?
No he's not - he said :
"Does conventional major/minor tonality or even modality apply to this entire song? Not that I can tell."
"Most people would tend to think of it in C"
"In layman's terms, the damn thing is in C, "
I agree that most people might think of it in C - but as he said - that doesn't make it right, strictly!
It is ambiguous - there is no functional harmony and each key only has one dominant 7th chord - so you can't tell by analysis!!
Well, you've certainly spun the f___ out of what didn't appear to be an ambiguous post. I guess you're seeing what you want to see. I guess "In layman's terms, the damn thing is in C, " isn't straighforward enough.
Originally posted by bizzaro
While this makes sense and sounds correct, the progression ends on the dominant(5th) and begins on the dominant(5th)and that seems contrary to me. So is the key C mixolydian or is it F major?
Come on Heraldo Chrisgerald, where the hell are ya?
Many days late and several dollars short, I'm afraid. Wow, what an entertaining read!
Even though it's already been decided, my answer would be: Use your ears - it's in C. Duh.
If you take everything into account that happens, you get the dominant chords C E G Bb, Bb D F Ab, and F A C Eb. Then you get the blues "5-6-5" (Major 6ths, all) riff on each chord from the guitar. Then you get the singer singing both the Major 3 and the b3 over the C chord. Put it all together and waddaya get? C, D, Eb, E, F, G, Ab, A, Bb, C. Hell, it's almost Chromatic!
But if you actually listen to the song with your ears instead of your theory knowledge", the song is so obviously in C that it's not even funny. That's the real test, not what note-matrix fits the chords. Sure, the Guitar player is going to shred on the blues scale over the changes...but unless he really, REALLY sucks, he's going to shred on the C BLUES SCALE.
Flame away, folks!
I could use some more good clean fun today.
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