Still love what you did with that pickguard. If I get my coffeeburst BB735A, I'll have to see what it looks like with no guard, though the black does look fine.
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5-string P pickups with mismatched coils and hum cancelling
- Thread starter JimmyM
- Start date
This reply might have made my "why are 5-string Ps so rare?" thread a lot shorter
I'm considering buying a third 5-string P because I want that sound in a five so badly, but the 5-string ATK (triple-coil MM-ish pickup) I have had since I was 15 years old has smoked both the P5s I have tried. But maybe the Yamaha will do it! 
There's an orange Sadowsky-equipped BBG5 for sale at my local shop right now …
Reversing the magnets' polarity flips the signal polarity. Hooking the coil up the opposite direction (reverse wound) also does this - the signal comes out the same polarity. The induced magnetic filed hum cancels, but the "crosstalk" (we'd probably use a different term in the audio industry, but for now we'll go with that term) isn't miraculously cancelled by Leo's pickup. There is some, but not a lot - most of the time, which is why it's not a big issue.
The Novak pickup that has one pole piece for the middle string on each half of the pickup (see post 29) - that thing is definitely sampling the string in 2 places - it has a lot of what you're calling crosstalk. The middle string is going to sound rather different (a cancellation in the articulation region) than the other 4 strings if you use that pickup. Likewise, any other pickups with overlap (where a string is covered by both halves of a P pickup) will do the same to the sound of any string where both halves pick them up.
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I would venture to guess I know the least of anyone in this discussion, at least on the technical side, but it may be worth noting that this describes my experience with both the EMG P5 and P6X: the tone and output of the middle string of the 5 never quite seems to match that of the others. The P5 mixed equally with the J5 in the bridge gets close, at least. They have practically zero noise issues, however. These active pickups use blades, though they may be unequal on the P5 (I don't know).
While my Squier VMPV's stock pickup and the Quarter Pounder I have also tried in there haven't gotten me the sound I want, consistency in tone and output between strings hasn't been an issue. I haven't really noticed a noise issue, but the virtually total lack of noise in the active EMGs did catch my attention. These passive pickups use pole pieces, with three pairs on the fat strings and two pairs on the skinny strings.
The P5 with two identical sized coils uses a longer magnet on one coil and shorter magnet on the other coil in the position where the two coils overlap so the middle string should only be sensed by the coil with the longer magnet. Getting the spacing just right depends on correct string alignment and assumes the pickup route is directly centered. If you are having issues might it be possible you swapped the coils? This would put the short part of the shorter magnet on the outside rather than inside. You can use a ferrous metal object to get a general idea of where each magnet begins and ends in each coil and if there is significant overlap happening then it's possible the coils are installed in the wrong positions.
The P6 has two identical coils and magnets so the A string would be picked up equally by both and likely sound imbalanced.
Who actually does that? Do you know of any companies that do split-coil 5-string J pickups sets 3-2/2-3?
Nordstrand for one. I asked that question specifically. Bartolini does that with some 5 string pickups as well - I've had some of their 5 string soapbar "J's" and "P's" that were made that way - it shows the arrangement on their web site as well. There are probably others.
Oops - sorry. Bartolini keeps theirs 2/3 (the A string is always in the same coil with the G and D), but does reverse wound reverse polarity when you look at the "2" or "3" coil going from neck to bridge, so the combination of 2 pickups is completely hum cancelling - on J's and Soapbars with in line coils. A slightly different way of getting the same result.
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I tried the coils both ways in the P5, which came stock, before ordering the P6X (EMG make all that swapping really easy). I think both ways work about equally well, so I went back to the stock wiring when I decided to put the instrument up for sale. Of course that's when I finally got the setup just right
I don't care for the sound of either pickup on its own but they sound pretty good together, so I won't mind keeping it at this point 
Here's how everything lines up (pickup angles are likely different now, but you get the idea):
This picture convinced me to try flipping the pickup halves (so that the half closer to the neck would pick up the middle string), but I don't think it made much difference.
In your case you'd definitely want the longer magnet on the bottom coil, as your A string is far enough down that it probably would be in the sensing path for both coils if you had the longer magnet on the top coil. My 4-to-5 conversion needed the longer magnet on the bottom as well, but I string it E to C anyway so having the EA paired off is the most natural sounding to me coming from a 4-string. I'm curious what the issue is in your case.I tried the coils both ways in the P5, which came stock, before ordering the P6X (EMG make all that swapping really easy). I think both ways work about equally well, so I went back to the stock wiring when I decided to put the instrument up for sale. Of course that's when I finally got the setup just right
Here's how everything lines up (pickup angles are likely different now, but you get the idea):
View attachment 4385269
This picture convinced me to try flipping the pickup halves (so that the half closer to the neck would pick up the middle string), but I don't think it made much difference.
I mean in the sense that on a typical offset P split-coil (like mine) the low string coil is closer to the neck and a bit fuller while the high string coil is closer to the bridge and a bit snappier. I like that slight difference for chording and more melodic stuff, which is what I use that E-C PJ bass for a lot of the time.
I'm unclear on your recommendation. One coil for BEA, one for DG; or vice versa?
I have a '00 Fender US Deluxe P V. I kind of wish they did the pickup in such a way that the longer coil read the BEA and it was reverse oriented. This way the E & A are picked by the same coil in a traditional way. No biggie, the bass sounds great as is, it's not noisy, and it's not worth the routing and pickguard madness to just experiment for the sake of experimenting.
FWIW, that JJ bridge pickup is a nice pairing with the P pickup. Balanced both in tone and in volume.
FWIW, that JJ bridge pickup is a nice pairing with the P pickup. Balanced both in tone and in volume.
Well it took you guys forever, but finally we have a discussion! My conclusion from it is that I'm not the least bit worried about any hum issues whatsoever. So many times you hear of something that sounds like a huge issue on paper, but in reality affects my life zero. I believe this to be one of those cases. Apparently Duncan does too, or else they wouldn't have sent me the pickup.
BTW, why I didn't ask EMG about it despite being an endorser...Rob Turner, EMG's founder, does not care for passive pickups whatsoever, had to be talked into designing the Geezer set in the first place, and others have asked them about doing a 5 set that sounds like Geezers and Rob has steadfastly refused. Duncan, OTOH, said, "Sure, we'll make you a 5-string SPB-1!" If the Geezer didn't exist, I'd be using SPB-1's on all my basses anyway.
BTW, why I didn't ask EMG about it despite being an endorser...Rob Turner, EMG's founder, does not care for passive pickups whatsoever, had to be talked into designing the Geezer set in the first place, and others have asked them about doing a 5 set that sounds like Geezers and Rob has steadfastly refused. Duncan, OTOH, said, "Sure, we'll make you a 5-string SPB-1!" If the Geezer didn't exist, I'd be using SPB-1's on all my basses anyway.
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I think my issues with this bass (Jackson David Ellefson 30th Anniversary reissue) in the end are that this one is much touchier when it comes to both technique and setup than I am used to, and that these EMGs (and maybe active pickups generally) are sonically further away from my expectations than I would have guessed (I knew I was making a bit of a leap, but might have misjudged the magnitude). But I think I have the instrument to a place where if it doesn't sell, I don't mind; while his career seems to have ended in embarrassment, Ellefson was one of the players who got me playing and I continue to enjoy his work, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the instrument or the electronics in it. I just suspect I would get more use out of a Yamaha like @JimmyM or @Kro has.
EMG's actives are great but definitely not for everyone. I used pretty much nothing but active EMG's for a couple decades, long before I got a deal, still have a couple basses with them (including an active neck-thru PJ5), and they were definitely a major innovation in 1976 and continue to be the leader in active technology IMHO. But even though I can dial in a good imitation of the Geezer P with the BQC pre, they don't sound passive.
I'm not sure what the fuss is all about. Different sized coils? Bah, humbug!
LOL! Well mine's all routed for different size coils, so I have to go with it
