5-string P pickups with mismatched coils and hum cancelling

[JimmyM]

Gee, Jimmy, that's funny. A Yamaha BB235, right? The bass I was referring to is its exact predecessor, the BB415.
View attachment 4384752

No kidding?? You have good taste But yeah, that's what I got. 5 isn't important enough to me to spend real money on another one, but I did want a proper PJ5. I have a very nice active neck-thru 5 with EMG PJ actives, but it just doesn't hit the mark for me like passives do these days.

So as far as I can tell from pics, your pickups both have the same cover size, but it's really close to call.

 

[Gothic]

It would make more sense to me if they went 2.5+2.5 with smaller double polepieces and same size halves to retain the hum cancellation. Oh well.

 

[Flamingo21]

5 isn't important enough to me to spend real money on another one

Same here!

So as far as I can tell from pics, your pickups both have the same cover size, but it's really close to call.

Not so:

The difference in length is about half an inch. But that's the covers. The coils themselves might be of equal length, I never looked.

 

[joel406]

I just installed a set of these in my American Pro II Precision V. I also had a set of SD Apollo's installed in one of my American Pro V Jazz Basses. Got both back yesterday. Used both at last nights rehearsal. So far very impressed with both. The Precision really came alive and so did the Jazz. And both are dead quiet. No hum at all. I just had a set of Delano split coil Jazz bass pickups arrive yesterday. Their going in my American pro II Jazz V and the Fralins will be here Sunday or Monday and will be going into my last American Pro jazz V.

 

[Outbush]

Interesting, and it makes sense I guess.

I wonder if this is why Aguilar's 5 string P pickups are both 'long' but the bottom one has less pole pieces. I assume the coils are the same.

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Same thing with my Nordstrands.

 

[two fingers]

I have a Nordstrand P pickup in the neck position on my main player with two different size coils. I have never had any noise issues. But I have no idea what kind of wire they use.

 

[micguy]

Just found out something interesting...Seymour Duncan Custom Shop is making me an SPB-1 for my Yamaha 5-string that has the mismatched 3/2 coil config, and before they sent it, they wanted me to know they wouldn't be doing a typical cloth wiring like they do with the regular SPB-1.

I was told they substitute shielded Mogami wire for the usual wires because a P pickup with mismatched coils can't be made fully humbucking, so they use the shielded wire to make it as quiet as possible. Fine by me...they're the experts.

I'll know more when I get it in a few days, but I thought that was kind of interesting and I figured I'd put it out there for comments. So comment.

It's an interesting idea, but....

The mismatched 3/2 configuration is mismatched - that will still hum (though considerably less than a true single coil - 15dB less to be precise). Shielding the length of cable between the pickup and the control cavity is, while technically an improvement, such a minor thing compared the hum that will leak through the unbalanced coils that....you'll never really notice the difference. You'd be just fine with any style of wire.

 

[micguy]

I have a Nordstrand P pickup in the neck position on my main player with two different size coils. I have never had any noise issues. But I have no idea what kind of wire they use.

Some of the Nordstrand p5's have a sixth (hidden) pole piece - if the two halves of the pickup are the same dimensions, you may have one of those. If the two halves are different dimensions, then you have an unbalanced version - it's all down to what the cutouts are in your bass as to whether they can make the thing balanced or not.

 

[Cutter8]

It would make more sense to me if they went 2.5+2.5 with smaller double polepieces and same size halves to retain the hum cancellation. Oh well.

Like this?

 

[two fingers]

Some of the Nordstrand p5's have a sixth (hidden) pole piece - if the two halves of the pickup are the same dimensions, you may have one of those. If the two halves are different dimensions, then you have an unbalanced version - it's all down to what the cutouts are in your bass as to whether they can make the thing balanced or not.

Ah. That may be the case. The casings are the same size on both halves of mine.

 

[iiipopes]

Just found out something interesting...Seymour Duncan Custom Shop is making me an SPB-1 for my Yamaha 5-string that has the mismatched 3/2 coil config, and before they sent it, they wanted me to know they wouldn't be doing a typical cloth wiring like they do with the regular SPB-1.

I was told they substitute shielded Mogami wire for the usual wires because a P pickup with mismatched coils can't be made fully humbucking, so they use the shielded wire to make it as quiet as possible. Fine by me...they're the experts.

I'll know more when I get it in a few days, but I thought that was kind of interesting and I figured I'd put it out there for comments. So comment.

This is exactly why a P pickup is, forgive me, because I know you spent a lot of money, one of the worst pickups for a five-string bass. There are manufacturers that do make "balanced" coils for a five-string P configuration, and leave out the pole pieces on one of the segments, since it is the coils, not the magnets, that do the humbucking. They essentially make a 6-string P-pickup, and overlap it more. Sorry, that is my opinion after playing for so many years.

 

[JimmyM]

It's an interesting idea, but....

The mismatched 3/2 configuration is mismatched - that will still hum (though considerably less than a true single coil - 15dB less to be precise). Shielding the length of cable between the pickup and the control cavity is, while technically an improvement, such a minor thing compared the hum that will leak through the unbalanced coils that....you'll never really notice the difference. You'd be just fine with any style of wire.

That's what I figured, but I think it'll be fine noisewise. I've yet for the stocker to present a noise issue, and if the stocker won't, the SPB-1 won't.

This is exactly why a P pickup is, forgive me, because I know you spent a lot of money, one of the worst pickups for a five-string bass. There are manufacturers that do make "balanced" coils for a five-string P configuration, and leave out the pole pieces on one of the segments, since it is the coils, not the magnets, that do the humbucking. They essentially make a 6-string P-pickup, and overlap it more. Sorry, that is my opinion after playing for so many years.

You know, folks have played single coil guitars and basses for many decades, and done pretty well with them. I have three basses and a guitar with single coils and rare is the occasion that I have a problem with noise. So I figure that a pickup that's humbucking to a certain point but not entirely is plenty good, and any imperfections exist mostly on paper.

 

[logdrum]

5-string P pickups


For some reason - I thought this was another put 5 pickups in a bass.
I always thought about this even though I never had a 5 string P Bass. Good explanation by some.

 

[azureblue]

I have Barts on my (front PU) BB5000 1st gen. They are identical size and I think they are blade pickups inside. They were not a perfect fit, but they don't hum. They weren't custom made. I was told they can be used for a 6 string too.
The Wilde pickups have a bunch of pole pieces for those who don't like blades.

 

[JES]

I tend to just buy whatever's cheapest at Sam Ash that day.


I'm wondering if it's enough to where we'd even care, to be honest. My cheap little Yammy's quiet, and I know they're not using Mogami shielded wire for leads.

I have a P46 in a Lull 5er. With a little height adjustment the crosstalk is not really audible.

 

[JW56789]

This has been a thing since the industry has not quite settled out as to which will be the 'standard' 5-string Precision pickup pattern. Yamaha and Fender have chosen to go with the 3 + 2 shape, and most everyone else a 3 + 3 pattern; and as others have pointed out, the traditional 4-string size that just happens to cover narrow five-string widths.

IIRC, Fender winds the two halves of their five-string Precision pickup differently with different magnets. I know as much about pickup design as I do about disarming a nuclear weapon, but after this discussion, I see how they feel that might be necessary.

When Squier issued their Precision Five version several years ago (and obviously promptly pulled it because it was THAT good, try and find a used one), of course the usual 'gee, it's a Squier, I MUST upgrade the pickup, etc.' discussion came up, and the consensus eventually came to 'well, you can, but there's not that big a difference'.

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God Rest His Soul, but Chef started that one. If you have the patience, big parts of these pages are about thrashing around about what's the 'best' P pickup for the beast, with not a lot of agreement or any real answer.

So I own one of those Squier P5's. Box stock, the one thing probably worth changing is the Hipshot replacement bridge (drop-in, exactly the same 6-screw mounting pattern) if you feel you need it, but the pickup is fine. I toyed with going PJ with Seymour's Quarter Pounder Five set for this, or maybe upgrading just the OEM pickup as Jimmy's doing, but so far, I can't find much of a reason to do it, it just works, and it's at least as quiet as any other P Bass I've played. I suppose I could foil line it, better pots, etc., but so far I just don't feel compelled to do it. It simply plays and sounds like a Precision Bass . . . . with a somewhat bigger neck and some extra low notes and easier fingering.

Something I had not considered with the current crop of Yamaha BB's: With no fanfare whatsoever, after years of that blade bridge pickups and often P pickups that were just different enough that no one offered drop-in replacements (this is why you often see 80's BB's with hacked-up pickup routs for some other pickup installation), these now all use standard pickup routs. Smart, but I miss the visuals of the old ones.

 

[Jefenator]

Funny, I hadn't noticed any hum with either of my recent P/J 5'ers.
In fact, the Pedulla Rapture seemed like the quietest bass I've ever had (with Bartolini components, circa 2000). The Roscoe w/ Aguilars may not be quite as silent, but certainly in the ballpark for me.
Going single coil J/J would be my preferred way to resolve any mismatching 3+2 issues. (I once had a set of Sadowsky singles in a Yamaha BBG5. Loved it...)

 

[Ric Vice]

Funny, I hadn't noticed any hum with either of my recent P/J 5'ers.
In fact, the Pedulla Rapture seemed like the quietest bass I've ever had (with Bartolini components, circa 2000). The Roscoe w/ Aguilars may not be quite as silent, but certainly in the ballpark for me.
Going single coil J/J would be my preferred way to resolve any mismatching 3+2 issues. (I once had a set of Sadowsky singles in a Yamaha BBG5. Loved it...)

Very interesting. I'm pretty conservative in my bass purchasing. For a long time I was considering buying a fretless Mike Lull P-5. Just this year I went with a used Lakland 55-94, specifically because my fretted 2000 Lakland 55-94 has Bartolini's. Their quiet and have the sounds I'm looking for.

 

[Stevorebob]

There are many asymmetric P5 pickup sets that are sufficiently hum-cancelling. And every J5 split-coil marketed as hum-canceling is asymmetric — as are quad-coil MM and split-coil soapbar 5s. Technically, yes, there is an issue, but in practice, they seem to work just fine.

 

[GreyBeard]

Mine was silent, I wonder how Fender does it?