5 String stigma?

[Marlon Carbone]

Be careful not to mistake your own experience as a universal rule.[/boringselfsatisfieddroningon]

Oh, it's been universal so far. Every 4-string bassist and every 6-string guitarist I've ever let play my 7 stringed instruments has this cognitive dissonance. Every one. Without fail. There have been, probably, close to a 100 people now. I feel pretty confident in my statement. As a matter of fact, I'm still waiting for a different reaction.

 

[ElectricBass72]

I love my 6-string Ibanez SR506.... but I rarely use the high C string and use the Low B string constantly. So in my humble opinion, 5-strings (strung with Low B, not High C) are the perfect amount of bass strings. The C-string on a 6 is cool for noodling around, but I'd hardly ever use it in a live or recording situation. Of course there's bassists like Myung and Claypool who made a good living using the C-string on a 6er..... so there's that.

 

[R Briere]

I've found that the Solution for me was to walk out the door carrying only my 5-string and head for the gig. In two gigs I preferred the 5 and still feel that way.

 

[JohnTBassCo]

Hello, I posted a thread the other day about opinions on two bass models. I’m a veteran guitar player picking up a new bass, and one thing I noticed was how many people suggested that I buy a 4 string bass instead of a 5. I was a bit confused, because I was only asking about specific models, not whether to get a 4 or 5. Is there some stigma with 5 strings that I’m not aware of? I know everyone has opinions and I respect that, but I was surprised to see it pop up so much.

I have been playing guitar for over 60 yrs. Guitar was my main instrument in music school - when I was in my twenties - and my main gigging instrument for a few years after that. I guess that makes me a veteran guitar player too.

But over the years since then I’ve played bass as much as guitar. These days bass is my main instrument. I’ve owned a few four strings - my favorite a Rick which I wish I still had. But of the four basses I currently own three are five strings. I don’t think I would buy another four string. When I do play my four string I miss having the fifth string.

Even though I don’t play notes in the lower register on the fifth string as much as on the other four strings I enjoy two main benefits of having the fifth string:
1. It is there when I’m playing higher notes up the neck and need to quickly grab a low note.
2. I play with a classical guitar technique - kind of - because that is what I learned years ago. On the bass I use primarily rest stroke with my fingers. When I play notes on the E string I really like having the B string there. That allows for a rest stroke on the E string just like on the G, D, and A strings. So the attack and sound when I play a note on the E string is identical to the same on the first three strings. Yesterday I was playing my four string. And when I played notes on the E string I missed having the B string there - for the reason I just explained.

 

[Vanheusen77]

Only a stigma among musicians that everything must be “vintage” looking and sounding. They are out there however. I personally think you should be able to have any number of strings on your bass in any genre. As long as it is comfortable and you sound good, why should it matter? Yes it’s ridiculous but for some it does actually matter. Part of it could be that “extended range” or high tech basses are associated with flashy or overly technical playing.

 

[JazzOS]

Oh, it's been universal so far. Every 4-string bassist and every 6-string guitarist I've ever let play my 7 stringed instruments has this cognitive dissonance. Every one. Without fail. There have been, probably, close to a 100 people now. I feel pretty confident in my statement. As a matter of fact, I'm still waiting for a different reaction.

I too have been playing basses and guitars for a long time and have a Seven string jazz guitar, a six string bass, several normal 4 string basses and six string guitars as well as two baritone guitars tuned to low A.

To me the issue is what is the bottom string reference - with many years of either E1 or E2 as the reference when you switch to either B0 or A1 there is as you say a cognitive dissonance - that is you can no longer get the benefit of the thousands of hours referenced to E. I do play all of these instruments and have to treat them like transposing instruments (like horns which are pretty much all sounding different pitches than the notation reads).

So when trying to learn something new, or sitting in with new players I am trying to fit in with having a low E as reference permits my unconscious and intuition honed over thousands of hours to assert itself. But the instruments which are not referenced to a low E force me into a more analytical and therefore slower to respond mind set and I simply can not play as well.

I really like these other instruments as they give me many compositional ideas using different open strings and chord shapes and when playing with others are complimentary in new ways but I feel like I am always playing at level below that of the E referenced instruments and sometimes that is okay if I have had enough time to practice and work things out in advance for a performance but when trying to wing it or sight read or audition I can not afford the decrease in capability.

I am working to now to use the Nashville Notation system which is more relativistic and not absolute to give me the fluidity of different references. And I have tuned my five string bass to a high C instead of a low B to eliminate the B reference. And tuned my 7 string to drop A tuning and my two baritones to drop A tuning so I can log more hours on more than one instrument with the same reference A1.

My two cents worth.

 

[JazzOS]

After playing a 4 string for ~30 years I decided to try a 5’er. I just couldn’t get the hang of it. That B string threw me off every time. Maybe if it was strung EADGC it woulda been easier. Just saying...

By the way most bass amps can not do a very good job reproducing the low B but the high C gives you a lot more melodic and chordal options which work fine in jazz duos and trios but not so well in larger ensembles.

 

[smeet]

Part of it could be that “extended range” or high tech basses are associated with flashy or overly technical playing.

The association in peoples’ minds might exist, but it’s off the mark. It’s easier to play fast on a four string, and most very busy players play 4 strings (Wooten, Sheehan, Entwistle, Rocco, Jaco, Stanley Clarke, etc). If I wanted to vomit out the most possible notes, I’d get a small/narrow 4 string. But I’d rather mostly groove on a 5 string. I have no need for a 4 string ever again.

 

[JazzOS]

I have brought 4, 5 and 6 string basses to lots of gigs and no one ever cared how many strings I had as long as I did not get in the way of what they were playing. The real issues are not those relating to being or looking like everyone else, they are to being an excellent collaborator and artistically sensitive expressive player unless you want to stay a cover band person which is more about other things.

And by the way my five string Ibanez is only 2mm wider (under 1 tenth of an inch) at the nut than my six string electric guitars, and 1mm narrower than most acoustic guitars so in terms of sweet spot neck size for those of us that play both bass and guitar - five string make more sense than either 4 or 6.

 

[lfmn16]

Did you start on a ukulele, work your way up to a banjo and then guitar? That's about how much sense it makes to say start playing bass on a 4 string. Start on the bass you want to play.

 

[wazzel]

I had been playing 5 string basses only since 1993. No one I ever payed with had an issues with the number of strings. Just bought my first 4 string in 28 years to have something lighter and smaller to deal with back issues. I did not sell any of my 5'ers. They will still get played.

 

[tvbop]

high tech basses are associated with flashy or overly technical playing.

Some truth in it. Are we to really believe a guy working in a successful well known country style two beat outfit feels the need to wear a high price active bells and whistles five string?....why would you. I def get the impression that those who wear five feel the urge to solo the dusty end probably more than those of us who only play our lowly four string groove machines. I play a four string P and can funk and groove with anyone.

 

[smeet]

Some truth in it. Are we to really believe a guy working in a successful well known country style two beat outfit feels the need to wear a high price active bells and whistles five string?....why would you. I def get the impression that those who wear five feel the urge to solo the dusty end probably more than those of us who only play our lowly four string groove machines. I play a four string P and can funk and groove with anyone.

No truth at all in my experience. I like the extra range, the ability to play in more positions, and the feel. I have a P5 pickup in several basses, and if you feel that a 5-string (player or instrument) can't groove as well as any 4-string, I don't know what to tell you. Saying "I def get the impression" is just more of that traditionalist crap. It doesn't apply to me or any other bassist with taste, regardless of how many strings they play.

And "are we really to believe" is yet another example of a meaningless question/statement. Yes, yes you are to believe. Do you think a pianist with 88 keys plays less tastefully than a 61 key player?

In the end you of course will believe what you do. But in this case you are wrong. Tasteless players come in all shapes, sizes, and string counts.

 

[JazzOS]

Agreed no truth to discrimination about numbers of strings. Excellent players like the ones you mentioned above (Wooten, Sheehan, Entwistle, Rocco, Jaco, Stanley Clarke, etc) could play anything put in their hands - long scale, short scale, 4 strings, 6 strings, tuned to high C or low B or even to ADGC tenor bass. Talent is never held hostage to gear. Great players can make poopie gear sound awesome and the opposite is also true.

 

[Durham52]

Tasteless players come in all shapes, sizes, and string counts.

Very true. Sadly so can argumentative, one eyed, superior feeling and prone to stereotyping players. (No implication that you, or the vast majority of posters on this thread fit into any of those categories is intended.)

People get emotional about things, the football team they support, make of car they drive, or the brand of bass they play, or how many strings it has. As a result people say dumb and sometimes aggressive things. Some four stringers say stuff like "Jaco only needed four" and some five stringers say things like "fours are limited range basses".
I've always found it all a bit stupid. We're playing music for ******* sake, the most universal link between humans and something that should bring joy and satisfaction, if you're doing it right!

Looking down on each other over how many strings a bass has is as dumb as doing it over the brand or price of our basses, but don't get me started on that....

 

[JohnTBassCo]

I play five string basses — none would pass as “flashy” or “showy” — a passive P and an active J — both tuned G down to B; a Fretless semi acoustic tuned C down to E; a Fretless four string tuned G down to E; a baritone six string tuned A to A; a baritone six tuned B to B; and “normal” guitars tuned E to E. And I’m an amateur running on an old man’s waning memory. I don’t understand why switching from one to another would be confusing. They are all different. Sure maybe the first minute you pick one up you need to remind yourself what the open strings are tuned to. But after that it’s auto pilot. All of the notes are relative to each other in the same way on every instrument - I mean the strings on each instrument are a fourth apart except for the major third between strings two and three on the six string baritones and standard tuned guitars. And once you play one note your ears and your aural and mental understanding of the intervals between notes and between strings make it pretty clear on where to go to get the next note you want to play.

This silliness of cutting others down for their instrument choices reminds me of junior high. The insecure kids always cut down others to make themselves feel superior. Come on guys we are no longer junior high kids.

 

[halcyo]

I think the aesthetics are cyclical. People associate 4 str with “pros who play simpler, more in the pocket, ‘play for the song’” type of stuff, and 5 str are more “showboatey” apparently. It’s nonsense of course.

Funny story, I told a good guitar player buddy when I picked up a new G&L L1000 lately, and he was like “4 string or 5?”. I said “4”. He literally said, approvingly “good job”. Lol it was like I passed a small test or something haha

 

[bigcupholder]

And by the way my five string Ibanez is only 2mm wider (under 1 tenth of an inch) at the nut than my six string electric guitars, and 1mm narrower than most acoustic guitars so in terms of sweet spot neck size for those of us that play both bass and guitar - five string make more sense than either 4 or 6.

This is a really good point. I'm primarily a guitarist and I have yet to find a 4 string that I really like the neck on. My Ibanez SR 5 string feels great because it's so close to a guitar neck.