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Double Bass 5 String Technical Challenges

#21
Thank you Ken,

I have obtained a good grade Despiau replacement bridge and will probably go ahead and open the space a bit. I'm not going to do that on the stock bridge because I might want to go back to the that setup. The bridge spacing on my four-string was about an inch and I think I'll go with that. I didn't want to make any changes to the instrument prematurely if better technique were the real answer. Either I'm getting better, the instrument is opening, or a bit of both, because at first I could barely bow that E string and now it is actually speaking a bit, though I still run into the A and the B, so going to the 1" might be just enough. There's plenty of clearance before getting to close to the C bouts so no worry there.

It's definitely a "bowing" issue completely;- the same string pizzacato is very strong.
 
#23
Pete G said:
but I noticed the same thing with it as with every other five string I've played (including a Prescott, a Martin, a Pollman, an Arvi, and others -- always just playing a few licks, no serious time spent): The E string (bowed) seems dampened and generally less loud than I think it should
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WILD!

I've always experienced exactly the opposite! Then again, though I've been occasionally impressed with Martins, and I've never, ever, heard a Pollman that I actually liked.

The E string on a 5-er acts like an A string on a 4-er. It moves faster and sounds deeper.
Maybe if you're expecting it to have that "airhorn" quality, you may be "let down", but then you do as someone else already suggested, and play those notes up on the B string to get the same Power Effect.

I love my 5 stringer, and I really, really have enjoyed how the E string responds; having the 5th string also means that F#s and Gbs, especially on the E string, sound smoother (resonate with the B, where they have nothing to ring with on a 4-stringer).

Going back and forth is not a real issue at all after owning the 5-er for just a short while. Even though my 5-er has a string length of 46 1/2", and my 4-er is a 43". Doesn't matter as long as it's a well-made instrument.
 
#25
KSB - Ken Smith said:
Why replace the Bridge? Just re-cut the top of the one you have.
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There are a few reasons that I am using a new bridge for the spacing. To recut the current one I would also need to install adjusters to have a clean top edge. There are only two strings that I think I could lower enough to do it without adding adjusters. While I anticipate perhaps adding adjusters later, even with the rather dramatic spring to summer temp and humididty changes the bass hasn't shown a need for the adjusters yet.

This way, I can correct the spacing with the new bridge and if I need adjusters later, I can install them then. Also the Despiau looks like a better bridge by a notch. I'd like to see how much difference that makes.
 
#26
kpo said:
I love my 5 stringer, and I really, really have enjoyed how the E string responds; having the 5th string also means that F#s and Gbs, especially on the E string, sound smoother (resonate with the B, where they have nothing to ring with on a 4-stringer).
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This is one thing that I noticed right away and I also like the effect. The instrument seems to benefit in several ways from the additional string in terms of tone, resonance, and sustain, if you like those qualities.
 
#30
Yo Pauly, Arnie just cracked open my Hungarian to begin work on the 5-string conversion. I am excited about joining the ranks of the likes of you and other 'B'ers out there in the Bass world. One difference though is it will not be my main Bass. I plan on practicing on it and only using it in the Orchestra as needed.

I will start out with G and D Reg.Flexicor and A, E and B Permanents. This should work well for any type situation, I hope..

I hope to have it in a couple of months so I can warm up for the fall season starting in September. I get a year older then as well.

Of course, I will make a new Web Page with all the restoration and conversion work proudly displayed and post the link here on TB for you guys.
 
#31
KSB - Ken Smith said:
Yo Pauly, Arnie just cracked open my Hungarian to begin work on the 5-string conversion. I am excited about joining the ranks of the likes of you and other 'B'ers out there in the Bass world. One difference though is it will not be my main Bass. I plan on practicing on it and only using it in the Orchestra as needed.
Click to expand...

Really exciting! You may end up wanting to use it more than "as needed"

KSB- Ken Smith said:
I will start out with G and D Reg.Flexicor and A, E and B Permanents. This should work well for any type situation, I hope..
I hope to have it in a couple of months so I can warm up for the fall season starting in September. I get a year older then as well.
Of course, I will make a new Web Page with all the restoration and conversion work proudly displayed and post the link here on TB for you guys.
Click to expand...
Interesting combination of strings. I know you're lookin' at orchestral feel/sound, but what determined your choices?
I'm really looking forward to seeing it Kenny Boy.
 
#32
I have just a few final restoration/coversion decisions to make.

1) put a Graphite Bar in the neck under the new massive macassar ebony 5-string fingerboard or not and go for the natural sound of the wood?

2) Put some maple plates on the peg-box sides to hide the old tuner hole/screw scars and (Varnish over) like I did with my Mystery Bass Invalid Link Removed but thinner like on my Solo Bass Invalid Link Removed or like the Ebony thickness on the Martini Invalid Link Removed or leave all the Scars just touched up and finished over and let the natural 'Patina' enhance it's beauty? The Scroll/Neck wood is a bit on the plain side; Invalid Link Removed ??

3) Take off the Back as well and re-glue it to make sure all the other mysterious type glues are removed and only hide glue used OR, leave the back alone except where needed and glue it up as necessary down the road if a seam pops which I am more than capable of doing myself as I currently maintain the Martini and Gilkes as needed as well as having restored a few Basses in my day.

Your thoughts are welcomed...
 
#33
KSB - Ken Smith said:
I have just a few final restoration/coversion decisions to make.

1) put a Graphite Bar in the neck under the new massive macassar ebony 5-string fingerboard or not and go for the natural sound of the wood?

2) Put some maple plates on the peg-box sides to hide the old tuner hole/screw scars and (Varnish over) like I did with my Mystery Bass Invalid Link Removed but thinner like on my Solo Bass Invalid Link Removed or like the Ebony thickness on the Martini Invalid Link Removed or leave all the Scars just touched up and finished over and let the natural 'Patina' enhance it's beauty? The Scroll/Neck wood is a bit on the plain side; Invalid Link Removed ??

3) Take off the Back as well and re-glue it to make sure all the other mysterious type glues are removed and only hide glue used OR, leave the back alone except where needed and glue it up as necessary down the road if a seam pops which I am more than capable of doing myself as I currently maintain the Martini and Gilkes as needed as well as having restored a few Basses in my day.

Your thoughts are welcomed...
Click to expand...

If it ain't broke don't fix it! The less dabbling around, the better.
 
#34
Ok Pauly, I took your advice.

1) Neck as is with new fingerboard and maybe slightly re-carved to my thickness request.

2) Natural patina/repairs on the Peg box with the 4 to 5 Gear conversion.

3) Leave the Back as is and fix it later if necessary. It seems tight and holding just fine.

This will save me a few Bucks for my sons College bill due next month.
 
#36
Ok, it's all done and had a few hours with it already. One change Pauly on our discussion though. After having 2 Basses done with Arnold and having the Graphite Bar put in, I decieded this would be good to do. Since the FB came off anyway, the price was lower than doing it from scratch. Graphite helps keep the Neck stable and even out the notes on the FB.

Here's the new 5er; Invalid Link Removed

Now I have to learn how to play the thing. I will practice with it every day but only bring it to Orchestra rehearsals when the music calls for it. This will keep me out of trouble... maybe..lol
 
#37
Excitemnt!! Congratulations!
When you practice on the fiver, it's really easy Kenny Boy. Just remember, it follows the same fingering pattern as the other strings. I played mine on the first night on a serious jazz gig as soon as we got back in town from buying it in Chicago.
Of course, with jazz, I had no need to even know the names of the notes as I played. I just followed the fingering pattern of the other four strings.
 
#38
Thx, Paul. I was hoping you would chime in. I didn't mean to exclude you as a Jazzer but my main concern at first was the Bow. The B responds a bit slow with the Bow but I will adjust to it. As far as the Right Hand for Jazz goes, I usually anchor my thumb (or web) at or under the edge of the fingerboard about 5 inches up from the end and pluck/Pull (RB style/angle sort of) about 2-3 inches from the end of the FB. As I do alot of Bow work, I have to allow some room for Rosin as I sometimes Bow at the end of the fingerboard. Having a wider fingerboard now with this 5er makes the spread of my right hand about an inch wider as I am under the B string when I pluck the G instead of being anchored under the E with a 4 string.

Heres a couple of shots of me Plucking for you to see my hand position; [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Your thoughts plz Mr.W?
 
#39
What's really fun is that when you are plucking, you have the B string there as a brake. In other words, when you do a skip or one of those Ron Carter style drops down to the E string, you have the B string to use as a kind of brake to stop.
One of our TBDB brothers asked me once if I do any cross fingering up further on the Fingerboard. I answered yes, of course. However, you'll find it difficult to do any playing up in the thumb positions for obvious reasons.
 

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