500 vs 900 watts

[_One//Man//Mutiny_]

I’m looking at Darkglass actually…. I’ve heard a ton of demos on the distorted tones, but it’s scant out there on clean tone. What’s your take on it? Can it get warm, and can it do that clean growl too, or is it flat and cold?

It can do whatever you want it to! I leave the VMT circuit engaged and the use the blend to blend my clean tone into it. Does a great job at putting a little hair on my tone but still remaining articulate, does a very good tube sound. As weird as the layout is compared to other amps, it is really well thought out, it’s super flexible.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

The sound level is mostly influenced by the cab specs (speakers area, impedance, driver size, etc) that you possibly never going over 300 Watts with the amp head in real life. The better example is the 300-Watt SVT with 810 cab. Loud has hell. IMHO.

Agreed. Speaker area is less expensive way to create more dBs than chasing wattage. I have 2 210 cabs for a a total of 4-10” speakers. Both cabs are rated @ over 300 watts and with a stereo power amp to drive them to the max. I have yet to get close to maxing them out.

 

[Drummerboy2]

The sound level is mostly influenced by the cab specs (speakers area, impedance, driver size, etc) that you possibly never going over 300 Watts with the amp head in real life. The better example is the 300-Watt SVT with 810 cab. Loud has hell. IMHO.

When I had my GK 400RB years ago with my Hartke 410 cab, I could never get passed half ways on the volume control. I remember when there was a large backyard jam session that head was only around 11-11:30 on the knob and was still loud enough. That head was only 100 watts and the cab 8 ohms, it was plenty for that and other gigs.

 

[HolmeBass]

The 900w will give you a bunch of extra headroom, but it's not necessarily "louder".

It actually is louder.

Again the common mis-attribution here is that +3 dB is “barely noticeable” is woefully incorrect, especially at louder volumes.

Quite sensibly the Just Noticeable Difference (JND) is very close to +1 dB.

That fact that it is not a dramatic difference does not mean that it is not a readily apparent difference is in volume.

 

[SixtyCycleHum]

It actually is louder.

Again the common mis-attribution here is that +3 dB is “barely noticeable” is woefully incorrect, especially at louder volumes.

Quite sensibly the Just Noticeable Difference (JND) is very close to +1 dB.

That fact that it is not a dramatic difference does not mean that it is not a readily apparent difference is in volume.

Heck. I never said +3db is barely noticeable. I was not aware there was that much of a jump. I'm just basing off the fact that I've played through a 600w which killed a 1000w dead for general volume. The 1000w just had ample room before it started getting doity..

 

[HolmeBass]

Heck. I never said +3db is barely noticeable. I was not aware there was that much of a jump. I'm just basing off the fact that I've played through a 600w which killed a 1000w dead for general volume. The 1000w just had ample room before it started getting doity..

No, you didn’t say it was barely noticeable, said it didn’t even exist.

“The 900w will give you a bunch of extra headroom, but it's not necessarily "louder".”

Given the same kind of amp, just the more powerful model, and the exact same cabinets, the higher-powered amp will be louder, unless the cabinet has power handling so low that the lower powered amp is already driving it into compression.

If you are comparing two entirely different amps than power comparison goes right out the window. Questions about how the amps’ ratings were derived become the most important consideration.

 

[SixtyCycleHum]

No, you didn’t say it was barely noticeable, said it didn’t even exist.

“The 900w will give you a bunch of extra headroom, but it's not necessarily "louder".”

Given the same kind of amp, just the more powerful model, and the exact same cabinets, the higher-powered amp will be louder, unless the cabinet has power handling so low that the lower powered amp is already driving it into compression.

If you are comparing two entirely different amps than power comparison goes right out the window. Questions about how the amps’ ratings were derived become the most important consideration.

Sorry for any offence caused. Yet, it has been my experience.

 

[HolmeBass]

Sorry for any offence caused. Yet, it has been my experience.

It’s just mis-information then, isn’t it? Will that help the OP choose between the two DG models or two TH models they are considering?

Sorry for any offence caused. Yet, it has been my experience.

It is everyone’s experience that a feather falls more slowly than a rock. What turns out to be important is why: realizing that the actual universal truth is that they fall at the same rate if air resistance is removed allowed for an explosion of insight.

 

[agedhorse]

Voicing of an amp plays a big part in perceived loudness as well.

 

[hennessybass]

Voicing of an amp plays a big part in perceived loudness as well.

Agree.
Makes me think of my recent experience with the Aguilar TH700 and AG700.
Same 700 watts of power from the same company, but the AG700 seemed like a much louder amp. Two amps with two very different voices.

 

[DirkP]

+400...better by 400.

If you are in desperate need of a heater to go along with your stage monitor, I wouldn't disagree...

 

[DirkP]

Double check the quotes you take from the web. A difference of 3dB when you’re getting 100 dB in the face, won’t pass unnoticed.

I double checked...
"barely greater than the ability of the human ear to detect a difference"
Our drummer is a sound-engineer with a diplom and he uses to tell the PA-guy to add or take away 3-db, 'cause he is Mr. Nice

 

[lokikallas]

Power is cheap and light, go nuts! Just don’t blow up your stuff.

 

[Al Kraft]

Agree.
Makes me think of my recent experience with the Aguilar TH700 and AG700.
Same 700 watts of power from the same company, but the AG700 seemed like a much louder amp. Two amps with two very different voices.

I could not agree more and was very surprised when I played them side by side into the same cab.

I would also say that if the focus of an amp's voicing is in the lows and deep lows, having additional power in reserve when the volume goes up can make a big difference. Any of us who have ever used an amp with and then without a HPF have experienced this firsthand.

 

[cnltb]

If you are in desperate need of a heater to go along with your stage monitor, I wouldn't disagree...

Well, where I am , winter is on it's way in, so; perhaps not the worst thing to have

 

[SixtyCycleHum]

It’s just mis-information then, isn’t it? Will that help the OP choose between the two DG models or two TH models they are considering?

It is everyone’s experience that a feather falls more slowly than a rock. What turns out to be important is why: realizing that the actual universal truth is that they fall at the same rate if air resistance is removed allowed for an explosion of insight.

Alright, man. You're more knowledgeable. There's no need to be a d*ck about it..

 

[HolmeBass]

Alright, man. You're more knowledgeable. There's no need to be a d*ck about it..

Yeah you are right, sorry.

It is a pet peeve of mine that around here the the truth that more speakers is the best way to get louder and lower has somehow been misconstrued to mean +3 dB - double the power! - is barely audible and can’t make a difference. Sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes it makes all the difference in the world.

 

[Astronaut]

I double checked...
"barely greater than the ability of the human ear to detect a difference"
Our drummer is a sound-engineer with a diplom and he uses to tell the PA-guy to add or take away 3-db, 'cause he is Mr. Nice

To add or take away 3dB on the main LR master? Or one frequency on one channel of some buss mix?
I really doubt anyone wouldn’t notice any difference, in a white noise testing public address system. I know I can, but it’s probably my tinnitus that give me super hearing.
Anyway, we’re getting off-topic.

 

[HolmeBass]

I repost this from time to time. There are white noise sound clips that show the difference 1 dB makes and 3 dB makes, also 1/2 a dB.

Even at headphone volumes I think you’ll find that 1 dB is just noticeable, while 3 dB is obviously different. 1/2 a dB is freaky b/c each step is not readily noticeable but you do realize by the end that it is a louder.

dB: What is a decibel?

 

[agedhorse]

This is why we pay close attention to tolerances in a design, and how some tolerances can become additive at times, so while 1/2dB might not be much, if that occurs in more than a couple of parts or sections of a design, or if there are manufacturing tolerances within speakers (for example), it's possible to end up with unexpected differences. This is not uncommon on tube amps and speakers, which is why we often do double-blind listening tests to be sure we rule out first what we are not listening for.