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5th string sounds like mud
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Got these today, was advised in another thread to try them. I think it's going to be a waste of time right?
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Those are my favorite strings for my PBass but it will not solve your problem. Fyi I have been playing bass for 30 yrs and tried a lot of gear.
In fact I just noticed they are super heavy gauge ones. Let me predict what will happen, first be ready to file some larger groves into the nut as they won't fit, second they may put so much tension on the neck that it might bow terribly and possibly break it since your bass is an ABG. Third Nylon strings are awesome on a four string but I don't think the B will be much clear anyway.
To recap your problem, I'd say that building and selling an ABG with a B string is a really bad idea in first place and whatever you do will not improve that. As I said before the only good option is the EADGC tuning.
In fact I just noticed they are super heavy gauge ones. Let me predict what will happen, first be ready to file some larger groves into the nut as they won't fit, second they may put so much tension on the neck that it might bow terribly and possibly break it since your bass is an ABG. Third Nylon strings are awesome on a four string but I don't think the B will be much clear anyway.
To recap your problem, I'd say that building and selling an ABG with a B string is a really bad idea in first place and whatever you do will not improve that. As I said before the only good option is the EADGC tuning.
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I don't have any experience with an acoustic bass. But my B string sounded a bit duller than the rest.......until I went to a tapered B. Cleaned it right up.
It looks like you have learned a lot already.
You say that the open B string sounds too low and that the B at the 2nd fret of the A string is too high? You don't have too many choices for a B note between those two! As mentioned above playing the B at the 7th fret of the E string should be fatter sounding than that on the A string but it is still the same octave range B note. Perhaps it is the timbre/tonality of that particular bass that is the problem. Can you try a different bass to see if it sounds better and pinpoint the issue to your ABG?
Well as of yesterday, I have this 5 string ABG for sale on Craigslist here in MA. So I have on order an Ibanez Acoustic Bass AEB10-EDVS that will be here tomorrow. Then a whole another can of worms develops. I've been looking at BEAD tuning on that, which I'll have to research on that. Can anybody say off the top of their head what would be the best string type / gauge for that tuning? Or is it going to be the same situation, muddy sounding B string? I'm wondering if I could use those La Bella Tape wounds on my 4 string that is coming. The issue as I see it is that I'll need to do some nut filing, which is fine. I'm a master hacker. But I don't want to file the nut and then find out that the B string still has no clarity. I'm wondering if I could use that set and use the .115 as the 4th string (B) for BEAD tuning, or if it will be too floppy? Can't a guy get a decent sounding low B on an ABG? :***:
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but that will require a different set of strings right? I wouldn't want to be tuning up to E with a .130 on this ABG I wouldn't think. Don't want to trash it before I sell it.
Acoustic bass guitars have very limited utility - there's a reason upright basses are the size they are.
If you're wanting the sound I think you are (all acoustic), I don't know that you're going to be able to get it without an upright and possibly a 5-string upright at that.
If you're wanting the sound I think you are (all acoustic), I don't know that you're going to be able to get it without an upright and possibly a 5-string upright at that.
So it sounds like, for recording purposes, I'd probably want a 5 string electric bass and perhaps tune it to EADGC tuning and use the B on the 5th string for my Key of B tunes. I wish I researched all this crap before I went and bought a 5 string acoustic bass and wasted money on those tapewound strings. But the overall theme here is that there is nothing one can do to get clarity out of the 5th string (B) on an ABG. Correct?
It's just the nature of the beast; you need a big box to reproduce the low notes properly and virtually all ABG are basically just thrown together with an 6 string acoustic guitar body. There are some more specialized ABGs out there but they are still 4 string basses (so a B string on one is still a B string, get it?) and will cost significant $$$.
A few things need to be cleared up here.
The size of the body in this particular bass is inadequate for getting good acoustic volume and bottom end out of the B-string, sure. It's also inadequate for the E-string and borderline at best for the A-string. Those strings aren't suffering if I understand the OP correctly. We're also talking about unplugged sound only here. The amplified (or recorded direct) sound should not be hampered by this. The problem described sounds like a string and setup issue to me. Besides, the OP complains about muddy sound, so the lack of lows from the small body isn't the problem, it's mostly lack of highs. Lack of highs is typical for less than stellar B-strings (or damaged ones).
1) Double check that the piezo strip is seated correctly under the bridge, especially on the B-string side.
2) Get a set of "normal" roundwounds on there (not phosphor bronze or tapewounds), with a substantial B-string. D'Addario XL or ProSteels have good B-strings, and are cheap too. Tapered strings can help give more clarity to the B-string, but the bridge on your bass does not have individual string adjustment for height, which will make a good setup difficult with such strings. I suggest you go for non-tapered ones. Don't bother with anything lighter than .130 if the rest of the set is light to medium gauge. A .135 B actually mates well with a .100 E in terms of tension. Most out of the box sets from most manufacturers have a B-string with lower tension than the rest. While I personally dislike the feel, it sounds just fine on a typical electric bass with magnetic pickups. Your bass on the other hand, has piezo pickups and string tension tends to directly affects string volume with such pickups.
3) Don't play at the end of the neck. Move your right hand closer to the bridge.
A note on tape wounds: Those gauge numbers are the full diameter, including the tape. The actual roundwound strings inside are thinner. The tape doesn't have much weight and doesn't contribute much to tension, so those strings are nowhere near the kind of tension you would expect from a similarly gauged set of rounds.
Now, if you actually plan to play unplugged with a band, that bass is not going to cut it, but it was my impression that you will mostly be plugging it in and maybe play unplugged by yourself occasionally. Is this correct?
The size of the body in this particular bass is inadequate for getting good acoustic volume and bottom end out of the B-string, sure. It's also inadequate for the E-string and borderline at best for the A-string. Those strings aren't suffering if I understand the OP correctly. We're also talking about unplugged sound only here. The amplified (or recorded direct) sound should not be hampered by this. The problem described sounds like a string and setup issue to me. Besides, the OP complains about muddy sound, so the lack of lows from the small body isn't the problem, it's mostly lack of highs. Lack of highs is typical for less than stellar B-strings (or damaged ones).
1) Double check that the piezo strip is seated correctly under the bridge, especially on the B-string side.
2) Get a set of "normal" roundwounds on there (not phosphor bronze or tapewounds), with a substantial B-string. D'Addario XL or ProSteels have good B-strings, and are cheap too. Tapered strings can help give more clarity to the B-string, but the bridge on your bass does not have individual string adjustment for height, which will make a good setup difficult with such strings. I suggest you go for non-tapered ones. Don't bother with anything lighter than .130 if the rest of the set is light to medium gauge. A .135 B actually mates well with a .100 E in terms of tension. Most out of the box sets from most manufacturers have a B-string with lower tension than the rest. While I personally dislike the feel, it sounds just fine on a typical electric bass with magnetic pickups. Your bass on the other hand, has piezo pickups and string tension tends to directly affects string volume with such pickups.
3) Don't play at the end of the neck. Move your right hand closer to the bridge.
A note on tape wounds: Those gauge numbers are the full diameter, including the tape. The actual roundwound strings inside are thinner. The tape doesn't have much weight and doesn't contribute much to tension, so those strings are nowhere near the kind of tension you would expect from a similarly gauged set of rounds.
Now, if you actually plan to play unplugged with a band, that bass is not going to cut it, but it was my impression that you will mostly be plugging it in and maybe play unplugged by yourself occasionally. Is this correct?
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Nobody has stated the obvious answer, which is that humans are not born instinctively knowing how to play a 5 string bass! If you want to become an expert on the instrument, then you should study with a good teacher who specializes in 5 string, transcribe iconic recordings featuring 5 string bass lines, and put in the many necessary hours of practice.
Ric5
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- Jan 29, 2008
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Put a set of rounds on the bass then turn up the mids. Too much bass and too little mids will make the low B muddy.
The tension on that set would be similar to a roundwound set of: .050, .060, .075, .105, .125. or thereabouts.
It will most likely not put any extreme stress on the neck or the top. May require filing of the nut to fit the strings though.
There's a good chance that the B-string will be even duller than the one he's already got, though.
It will most likely not put any extreme stress on the neck or the top. May require filing of the nut to fit the strings though.
There's a good chance that the B-string will be even duller than the one he's already got, though.
I'm not planning on using this unplugged. I initially got a bass as we do not have a bass player right now and my drummer bought a Fender T-bucket and I thought it was cool. Then I got the idea that when we get a bass player, it might be cool to have some prerecorded bass tracks for him to learn the tunes quicker and then come up with his own stuff later on. Our stuff is elementary school easy for a bass player, at least that's the way I see it, but we have a ton of tunes to learn. So I got the idea of recording some bass. But it doesn't seem to be working out too well with the acoustic bass. Also with this thing, being that the saddle is so high on the B side, it's that much further from the piezo = unequal volume as you go towards the fatter strings. It's obvious that this thing is a dud for recording.
Saddle height shouldn't be a problem, unlike magnetic pickups where distance to the string matters. The saddle is resting on a "touch sensitive" strip underneath it. This strip reacts to direct pressure to produce sound. The way it works is nothing like a magnetic pickup. A common source of problems in piezo systems is that the piezo element or elements, have become misaligned. Please take the bridge out and double check that the piezo covers the b-string area under the bridge, and sits flat. When you put the bridge back, make sure it makes good contact with the piezo across it's entire length.
Well this thing doesn't sit flat because the Piezo is round, not flat like most of the fishman piezos that I've seen. On the B side where the piezo wire goes through the hole, it's not far enough towards the end of the saddle. So basically the edge of the saddle is resting right on the top of the wire hole. There was 2 thin plastic type shims in there as well on this supposedly new bass also. I removed them. The saddle itself is dead flat. It's pretty loose inside the slot as well. I'll have to see if I have some bone blanks and make a thicker one, but as I said, the whole 5 string acoustic bass is basically "the thing that should not be" and I have an Ibanez 4 string on the way and this is on Craigslist. Now, removing those two shims did improve the sound on the E string and a slight volume > on the b string, but I don't think it's going to get any better no matter what I do. If I were to keep it, I'd get the K+K SBT's and forget the piezo.
Hard to say if this impacts the tone of the B. It might. If so it could be a QC problem with your specific bass. On the other hand it might not impact the tone much.
Sounds like a good start to me. Getting some strings on there that are known to have a decent B might get you all the way there, along with the right tone control settings. Haven't heard any positive things about the B-strings on any phosphor bronze or tapewounds on the market so far.
I really cannot see what you base this statement on. Especially given that your experience with your bass might be due to a QC issue. This isn't really an acoustic bass to begin with, more like a semi acoustic. It's meant to be plugged in but get you an acoustic kind of tone through the amp. You can get just as good a B from a semi acoustic like this as from an electric. At least if it's well made.
The thing that should not be, is calling a bass guitar with a body the size of a guitar "acoustic". Regardless of the number of strings. ;-) Ibanez is not the only company that does this, though.
As far as acoustic bass guitars go, I actually have an 5-string ABG where the B sound good acoustically and the overall volume is fine for playing with acoustic guitars and vocals. It's a custom with a huge body from a guitarron.
