• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

6 String guitarists dictating the bass lines..do they get it?

#41
The correct thing to do when playing bass is to serve the song.

It's not about whether your line is challenging or not.
It's not about your guitar player's opinion.
Your emotions and frustration has nothing to do with it and neither do his.

What emotion is the song trying to convey in each moment?
Look to lyrics or the harmonic structure of the lead melody for clues.

Does what you play support that? Simple.

Remember, bass is a BIG sounding instrument and people take notice when big things start moving around and acting fast or unpredictable.
It's easy to overplay things, however, underplaying can also be a problem.
Bass is what makes a song move and gives it punch and energy at the right times. Give the song the correct energy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: merseymale and Mr_Moo
#42
gkella said:
I am playing the lines on the record.
He demands very sparse drumming and bass.
I am thinking about quitting but..
I live in a relatively small town so I am afraid it will be difficult
to find another band to play with.
Being relatively new to the bass (18 months), It is still a positive situation for my growth.
Click to expand...

maybe part of your growth will be learning to deal with difficult band members.

are there any other players, open mics or jams in your small town or maybe 1 or 2 towns over? if so, maybe you can find another guitar player. it wouldn't hurt to look around even if you continue playing with the control freak.

best of luck to you!
 
  • Like
Reactions: merseymale, Mr_Moo and BK bassist
#45
A few thoughts of mine on this issue for free (but I promise you your money's worth):

1. Guitar players are more open to ideas when presented in guitar player language. "Isn't that a diminished chord? If I played the flat 3rd or flat 5th instead of the root, it would really enunciate that."

2. While note-for-note playing is commendable and demonstrates a mastery of a song, that's better suited to tribute bands. If you cover a style but by many different artists of the genre, adding personality to the songs will add crowd appeal to your performance. --If I'm playing "Copperhead Road" by Steve Earl, for example, I may switch out the word "Vietnam" for "Afghanistan" to make those lyrics true for myself and more relatable for the audience. We may transpose a song we like that doesn't fit our vocal ranges so we can sing it without trashing our voices mid set, and when we do "Cult of Personality," the guitar solo doesn't sound like Vernon. If all you do is note for note, you can be replaced by an mp3 player.

3. Practice and rehearsal have different purposes. Practices are for learning new songs, making adjustments, trying new things (Since we play this chord progression 4 times in a row in this part of the song, what if I go up an octave on D the first and third times, and down an octave the second and fourth times?) and getting everyone on the same page. Rehearsal is running through how you will present your material live. This is where you stick to what you've established works. Save any changes you're considering for after the show you're preparing for.

4. People start and join bands because they enjoy playing music. If it's not fun, get together and figure out why. If there's an impasse, maybe it's time to move on or replace some people.

5. Serve the song. This means something different to each musician, but everyone can get caught up in the moment and overplay at times. As a bass player, there's times to groove and times to embellish. This is not during a vocal part or a guitar solo. Bass and drums can get fancy together when there's no vocal parts or guitar solos, but too many things happening at once just sounds like a bunch of noise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: merseymale and Marlon Carbone
#50
gkella said:
I am in the midst of starting up a band.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
Click to expand...
In any group setting (band, work, or otherwise), it helps to be diplomatic and to accept feedback. There is a difference between offering constructive feedback and being a dictator. And there is a difference between one band member making suggestions, and the entire band making them - e.g. if other band members are telling you to pull back, you might want to listen - but if it's just the guitarist....

If it were me, I would nicely tell the guitarist that I will sometimes play as he suggests, and sometimes play my way. After that, the more he continues to be a control freak, the less diplomatic I would be. Eventually I would mention that I don't dictate to him exactly how to play guitar, therefore he needs to stop telling me how to play bass - "we each have a role in this band, and it's not your place to dictate my role". If the other band members are okay with your playing, then I would continue. Maybe the guitarist will eventually leave and then you can replace him with someone who knows a little better how to play with others in the sandbox.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Mr_Moo and dBChad
#51
Reminds me of one otherwise really good guitarist who had a bad habit of turning to me and saying: “Gimmee a LOT of bass!” (trans: just very loudly pound out the root) before launching into yet another interminable solo to impress his (she was easily impressable) sweetie. It was the musical equivalent of: “Hold my beer and watch this!”

We broke him out if it by dropping the two songs he loved to wank out on from our set lists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lex P., merseymale, Mr_Moo and 3 others
#52
My two cents on this:

I've been in some bands over these years and there have been times when I've heard some of my band mates telling me to keep things simpler, to not overplay and sometimes I did as they sugested and other times I sticked with my bassline. Most of the times that I didn't hear them I'd listen to recordings of the sessions later and came to agree with them and felt overplaying and complicating things.
Nevertheless, these where mostly originals bands and I was on my 20s.
Nowadays I play mostly in covers bands and I'm 43 and first I listen to songs and try to respect the original basslines and then just make some of my lines if I find space to do so just because it's fun, I like to chalenge myself and it's boring to play always the same stuff the same way 3 to 4 nights a week.
But I've been lucky enough to play with some really great musicians that are also great people and are as open to discussion and comunication as myself.
There was only 2 times that I played with a guitar player that wanted to totally control my playing. The first time took me 3 months to quit the band, the second time it took only one rehearsal to feel that I didn't have to put up with that.
To conclude, if you're not confortable with the way things are going then talk openly about it, but also listen and find a way to settle a midle term along with the other band members. If you can't find a way to resolve this in a way that you feel satisfying then your experience in that band won't last long because the only way to play in a band where you're not enjoying yourself is when the money is too good to quit, which doesn't seem to be the case...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: merseymale, EddiePlaysBass, Mr_Moo and 1 other person
#53
It doesn’t sound like it’s a good fit. No need for drama, just tell him it’s everyone’s band, not just his and that you won’t be dictated to. If he continues, one of you should leave.

You can’t make him stop being a jerk anymore than he can make you play all root notes.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this is why I keep saying the role of the bass should be discussed BEFORE you join a band.
 
  • Like
Reactions: merseymale, Mr_Moo and el jeffe bass
#54
gkella said:
I am in the midst of starting up a band.
Having issues with my guitarist.
He is very rigid and demands I play very simple bass lines.
To the point, I am getting very frustrated.
If I try to add some colour by playing walk up notes to the root, he has a fit.
He demands I just pound the root note.
We are all in our 50’s and 60’s and this is more of a hobby band, with hopes Of playing play local pubs, picnics, etc when get enough songs together.
I discussed this with my bass teacher and his opinion was..
If you are paying me,
I will play it the way you wish.
If not, then, I will play it the way I think it should be.
He also commented that this attitude is common with guitar players.
My thoughts are...
I am bored pounding the root note, it’s not challenging me.
I want the chance to add some colour.
I am not trying play over everyone and be the star.
Any thoughts..
Click to expand...

I going to assume you are playing original music. If not, introduce songs you want to play that have more space to create batter bass lines, or find another musical project.

If you are playing original music, the writer/arranger wins. A lot of music written and arranged today do not use walking bass parts, opting to use drums or guitars to drive chord changes and or punctuating cell changes which were once the province of the bass. It’s a brave new world.

Personally l don’t like it much either. I have two praise and worship songs this week at church where not only am I staying on the root, 75% of the songs I’m playing whole notes at 120 beats a minute in 6/8 time. Talk about boredom... I’ve talked about this with our PWL, but he keep on digging up the same old stuff. Frankly, they really don’t need a bassist for the material that’s being played.
 
#55
Without hearing a recording of your band, it's impossible to know what to say here. It may be you really are overplaying. It may be he's too controlling.

Early on, I was in a cover band playing Journey's Stone in Love - three-piece plus singer. We wanted to do it with the whole long outro and the Neal Schon solo. I started learning Ross Valory's part under that, which is very melodic and kind of all over the place. It's a great bass bit. When I started doing it in practice, though, the guitarist stopped me, and insisted that I play the root notes for him to solo over. Otherwise he was getting lost. I was pretty miffed about it, but then I realized that with no second guitar or keyboard providing a foundation of chords, for him and I both basically to be soloing was just making a mess. So I started to play the roots, and then over time found ways to toss in occasional flourishes from the recorded bass part that suggested enough of it to make the point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToS, catcauphonic, EddiePlaysBass and 5 others
#56
I did come across many guitarists like that in various jams. The thing is, they just get confused with anything more than roots. Maybe from playing to simple backing tracks all the time or something.
In this case, I don't think it will be easy to find common ground. You might want to consider cha gong guitarists.
 
  • Like
Reactions: merseymale and Mr_Moo
#57
This sounds like a situation where you’re jamming at the guitarist’s house and he’s basically looking for a backing band for his wankfest. Some bassists do overplay and need to tone things down, but I don’t think that’s the case here. A lot of assumptions made in my assessment, of course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: merseymale and Mr_Moo

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back