6 String question - alternate tunings?

[Riff Ranger]

I would think some kind of drop tuning or open tuning to have open octaves and fifths would be more generally useful on bass, because of the bass function and lower range. I think people might more often choose a specialized tuning for a specific song, to make certain chords and harmonics possible. Most things were expected to play work in standard fourths.

They really only make sense if you're doing polyphonic stuff or using the open strings for drones/effects.

Yup; I tune my 5-strings GCGCF to put open strings where I want them for droning and hammering on.

 

[thmsjordan]

i primarily play 6 string basses.

i've experimented with it but never anything more than just an exploration. it may be personal, but for me B E A D G C is just too logical and works for everything.

that being said, the viol da gamba's of the 17th and 18th centuries often would have 4th tuning but a major third in the middle, just like a guitar.

i bring this up just to say it's not a weird one-off thing that guitars work well this way. it's certainly a logical system and to my knowledge 6 string basses are the only 6 string instrument just about always tuned in perfect 4ths.

hell, even the Viennese tuned basses of Mozart's era would have had 4 or 5 strings and they would have had the top three strings tuned to a (D) major triad.

so, explore it if you are interested. you may have better luck than I did!

Just an informational post to make sure we are giving correct history here:

You are right about multiple string gamba (which were often 5 string if memory serves), but most double-basses by the time of Mozart were three string basses like the one you see here being played by the late, brilliant LSO principal bassist Rinat Ibragimov. (One thing to note here is that Mozart era bassists wouldn't have played one of these with a French bow as you see here because that bow hadn't been used for bass then. They would have used a German bow which is played underhanded):


This is true mastery of a bass folks!

By the 18th C. the Gamba had largely fallen out of use as an ensemble instrument but still had something of a career as a solo instrument, particularly in Germany and France well into the 18th C..I have no idea how they were tuned so I cannot speak to that point.

 

[groooooove]

Just an informational post to make sure we are giving correct history here:

You are right about multiple string gamba (which were often 5 string if memory serves), but most double-basses by the time of Mozart were three string basses like the one you see here being played by the late, brilliant LSO principal bassist Rinat Ibragimov. (One thing to note here is that Mozart era bassists wouldn't have played one of these with a French bow as you see here because that bow hadn't been used for bass then. They would have used a German bow which is played underhanded):


This is true mastery of a bass folks!

By the 18th C. the Gamba had largely fallen out of use as an ensemble instrument but still had something of a career as a solo instrument, particularly in Germany and France well into the 18th C..I have no idea how they were tuned so I cannot speak to that point.

3 string basses certainly existed, but were never quite as standard as some scholars (particularly 10-20 years ago) used to propose. Lots of orchestras had mixes of bass-variety instruments.

Paul bruns book "a new history of the double bass" can be summarized as such: it is actually quite rare for there to be a "standard" bass instrument until E A D G become normal around the mid 19th century.

so, you are not wrong, but both are sort of true. specifically mozart was writing in a time and place (remember, this is very geographical!) where vienese tuning was as "standard" as it could be. As far as I know that is now accepted as fact that mozart's bass was 5 strings tuned D A D F# A. Obviously i'm aware there were lots of variations. Yes they would've played german bow for sure.

also, I love seeing this video of Rinat still being celebrated. He was a wonderful musician and a true artist. RIP maestro!!

 

[thmsjordan]

3 string basses certainly existed, but were never quite as standard as some scholars (particularly 10-20 years ago) used to propose. Lots of orchestras had mixes of bass-variety instruments.

Paul bruns book "a new history of the double bass" can be summarized as such: it is actually quite rare for there to be a "standard" bass instrument until E A D G become normal around the mid 19th century.

so, you are not wrong, but both are sort of true. specifically mozart was writing in a time and place (remember, this is very geographical!) where vienese tuning was as "standard" as it could be. As far as I know that is now accepted as fact that mozart's bass was 5 strings tuned D A D F# A. Obviously i'm aware there were lots of variations. Yes they would've played german bow for sure.

also, I love seeing this video of Rinat still being celebrated. He was a wonderful musician and a true artist. RIP maestro!!

I now have my next read. Thanks for the book title! RIP Rinat indeed. He is missed.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Just an informational post to make sure we are giving correct history here:

You are right about multiple string gamba (which were often 5 string if memory serves), but most double-basses by the time of Mozart were three string basses like the one you see here being played by the late, brilliant LSO principal bassist Rinat Ibragimov. (One thing to note here is that Mozart era bassists wouldn't have played one of these with a French bow as you see here because that bow hadn't been used for bass then. They would have used a German bow which is played underhanded):


This is true mastery of a bass folks!

By the 18th C. the Gamba had largely fallen out of use as an ensemble instrument but still had something of a career as a solo instrument, particularly in Germany and France well into the 18th C..I have no idea how they were tuned so I cannot speak to that point.

3 string basses certainly existed, but were never quite as standard as some scholars (particularly 10-20 years ago) used to propose. Lots of orchestras had mixes of bass-variety instruments.

Paul bruns book "a new history of the double bass" can be summarized as such: it is actually quite rare for there to be a "standard" bass instrument until E A D G become normal around the mid 19th century.

so, you are not wrong, but both are sort of true. specifically mozart was writing in a time and place (remember, this is very geographical!) where vienese tuning was as "standard" as it could be. As far as I know that is now accepted as fact that mozart's bass was 5 strings tuned D A D F# A. Obviously i'm aware there were lots of variations. Yes they would've played german bow for sure.

also, I love seeing this video of Rinat still being celebrated. He was a wonderful musician and a true artist. RIP maestro!!

I’ve enjoyed this video for years and hadn’t heard he had died. Thanks for the music and the memories, Rinat.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Just an informational post to make sure we are giving correct history here:

You are right about multiple string gamba (which were often 5 string if memory serves), but most double-basses by the time of Mozart were three string basses like the one you see here being played by the late, brilliant LSO principal bassist Rinat Ibragimov. (One thing to note here is that Mozart era bassists wouldn't have played one of these with a French bow as you see here because that bow hadn't been used for bass then. They would have used a German bow which is played underhanded):


This is true mastery of a bass folks!

By the 18th C. the Gamba had largely fallen out of use as an ensemble instrument but still had something of a career as a solo instrument, particularly in Germany and France well into the 18th C..I have no idea how they were tuned so I cannot speak to that point.

Any idea how this 3-string was tuned?

 

[thmsjordan]

Any idea how this 3-string was tuned?

As Groooooove correctly pointed out, there wasn't much in the way of standardized tuning even on three string basses but my understanding is that tunings were regionally based. Sometimes they were tuned in 4ths (ADG is one), other times in 5ths (GDA) but these were by no means standard. So, I guess the answer is - depends.

 

[Riff Ranger]

As Groooooove correctly pointed out, there wasn't much in the way of standardized tuning even on three string basses but my understanding is that tunings were regionally based. Sometimes they were tuned in 4ths (ADG is one), other times in 5ths (GDA) but these were by no means standard. So, I guess the answer is - depends.

I meant on this specific recording.

 

[thmsjordan]

I meant on this specific recording.

Good question, I don't really know. Groooooove you got a tuning here? Anyone? I would sit down and try to catch him on an open string but no time.

 

[Richard Lindsey]

This is what I love about TB: It only took us 4 pages to work our way down from 6 strings to 3.

 

[Riff Ranger]

This is what I love about TB: It only took us 4 pages to work our way down from 6 strings to 3.

2 are plenty much of the time

 

[HaphAsSard]

Good question, I don't really know. Groooooove you got a tuning here? Anyone? I would sit down and try to catch him on an open string but no time.

I meant on this specific recording.

I listened closely in order to figure it out, then checked: it's B-E-A (in other words, solo tuning minus the lowest F#).

 

[thmsjordan]

I listened closely in order to figure it out, then checked: it's B-E-A (in other words, solo tuning minus the lowest F#).

Sounds right. I have only played one 3 string in my life and it was tunes ADG and solo tuning is up a step from orchestral tuning so yep. Thanks for sleuthing this out !!

 

[Riff Ranger]

I listened closely in order to figure it out, then checked: it's B-E-A (in other words, solo tuning minus the lowest F#).

Wow, thanks for figuring that out

 

[GWGuitar]

From what I understand, one of the main reasons for having the major third interval in guitar tuning is for 6 string barre chords: it gives you the 12th and the root 2 octaves above (would that be called the 15th?). On a 6 string bass tuned BEADF#B, those barre chords would likely be voiced too low to be practical. Plus you would be playing single note lines most of the time, and so the logic of keeping it in all fourths wins out, at least for me.



I have tuned my sixer in all fifths before, and I dabble in all fifths tunings on a variety of instruments. You can get easy, strummable 3, 4, and 5 string barre chords in spread voicings. Major and minor triads in all inversions are brain-dead easy, and root position seventh chords fall nicely on 4 adjacent strings. You can even get decent voice leading by just moving the shapes around. Closed voicings and upper extensions are a lot harder, that's where all fourths exceeds in.

I don’t even like fifths on a mandolin, and that neck is tiny!