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60's vs 70's spacing on a Jazz

#41
ric4682 said:
@Matthew_84 My main bass is a recent 4003 so since you're making that comparison I'll probably go for the 60's since it'll give me a little more variety. I'll have the Ric for rock and such and I plan on using the Jazz for more, well, jazzy or funk stuff.
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Also, for what you're using it for, you may want to add a Series/Parallel switch.

In parallel you'll get a typical Jazz tone, but in series you'll get a boost in the mids and a drop in the highs to help get a closer P Bass sort of a tone.

The series mode would be better for more straight-forward type Jazz and older Funk. Switch it to parallel mode for Jazz Fusion and newer Funk type of stuff.
 
#43
In the 60's I guess Fender placed the pickups for the sound. Then CBS moved them in the 70's for the looks.

I don't play J basses but if I did I'd probably make them sound pretty much the same. I seem to do that to all my gear!
 
#47
DirkP said:
My two cents: we associate a brighter wood with a brighter sound and a darker wood with a less brittle and warm sound. That is a kind of "synaesthesia" imo. Just think about it: your strings on a fretted neck don't even touch the thin piece of rosewood above your maple neck! The string touches a cheap piece of metal, than a cheap piece of plastic, than another cheap piece of metal (the fret) and then another cheap piece of metal (the bridge), are magnetic and vibrate above the pickups that interact with the magnetic force of the strings. How should this thin layer of a dark wood change the sound?
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I understand your logic, but here are a couple of points to consider:

1.) Based on what you said, every bass that has the same pickups, strings, frets, bridge, and setup should sound exactly the same. I have found this to not be the case. There are subtle differences between EVERY bass. One of the biggest variances is wood...no two pieces are identical. You stated it correctly when you said there is a vibration above the pickups, however, this vibration uses and carries throughout the whole bass. When you play a note on a bass that is unplugged from an amp you feel the note vibrate through the wood, so it makes sense (to me) that the wood does play some factor in deriving the overall tone. Body wood, neck wood, fingerboard wood...it's all part of the whole.

2.) The "think layer of dark wood" doesn't necessarily have to be dark. I would say that it has more to do with the overall hardness and density of the wood on the fretboard that absorbs a portion of the vibration. Ebony is said to have an even brighter sound than maple. We typically see maple fretboards covered with some type of finish, where rosewood boards don't have any finish, this likely plays a factor into what some of us hear.

Like I said before, the fretboard wood is a "LITTLE" factor into the overall tone of the bass that I hear. There's certainly no right or wrong answer here, but it's fun to discuss.
 
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#48
ric4682 said:
I'm looking at either having a Jazz bass commissioned or just buying one, does anyone else have a comment on the differences?
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Personally, I really loved the Fender Classic '70s reissue Jazz I had a ways back. It sounded wonderfully aggressive, especially when strung with D'Addario FlexSteels, and the neck worked incredibly well for my fretting hand. If you want to go with '70s spacing, I'd recommend either one of them (pictured below) or a Geddy Lee-sig Jazz. Both MIM models shared the same, exact factory body.

70sJazz01_zps10e97b2c.jpg


ric4682 said:
That series/parallel switch sounds like a good idea! I'll have to look into that.
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If you decide to go this route, here's an incredible little device;

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I put one into my P/J parts-bass build. It's like having a whole, new bass available to me.

DirkP said:
The reason Fender changed the position had nothing to do with sound, it was pure cosmetical: they didn't want the pickup to be seen when the bridge-cover is installed.
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I recently contextualized this discovery for someone using a quote from the dearly-departed American painting teacher…and Scion of Chill…Bob Ross; "In painting, there are no mistakes…only 'Happy Accidents'."
 
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#49
blmeier7 said:
Like I said before, the fretboard wood is a "LITTLE" factor into the overall tone of the bass that I hear. There's certainly no right or wrong answer here, but it's fun to discuss.
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I agree with most of your post here, but want to add that neck wood, even changing fretboard material, has a larger impact than body wood. Reason being that the neck, by virtue of its less mass and bring thinner, vibrates more easily than the body and so it's resonances interact with the string more than the body, which is closer to being a wall anchor. Case in point is how you can move or remove dead spots by hanging small weights on the headstock.

Understand, I'm not saying body wood doesn't matter just that neck matters more.
 
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#50
dabbler said:
I agree with most of your post here, but want to add that neck wood, even changing fretboard material, has a larger impact than body wood. Reason being that the neck, by virtue of its less mass and bring thinner, vibrates more easily than the body and so it's resonances interact with the string more than the body, which is closer to being a wall anchor. Case in point is how you can move or remove dead spots by hanging small weights on the headstock.

Understand, I'm not saying body wood doesn't matter just that neck matters more.
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One thing to consider when it comes to resonating bodies and necks: according to the laws of physics, we put energy in the strings when plugging them. Every bit of energy that goes into the body doesn't go into the pickups. The pickups aren't microphones, they only get their information from the strings. Maybe we like it somehow, when some of the vibration of the strings is sucked away by the body or neck? But there is only so much energy and it can go into the body OR the pickup. The more resonant the body is, the less sustain a tone has. Again: maybe some of us like this.
I just want to correct what IMO is a wrong concept: an electric bass isn't an acoustic instrument and the pickups don't "record" the sound of the body or neck wood like a microphone. The wood impacts the way, the string vibrates and how the energy we put into the strings is distributed among the different parts of the bass.
I would welcome any correction and I'm not a physicist by any means, but I have the impression that a lot of the myths about wood although repeated again and again aren't rational and fact based. It's like the myths about nitro finishes that would allow the wood to resonate and breath more openly and interact with the environment - although 99% of all nitro finished Fenders were sealed in a plastic grave before being finished with nitro.
 
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#51
image.jpg
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Here is my MIJ Geddy with a 1991 MIJ black body (which I think was from a MIJ fretless at the time 1991) replacing the original 70's pu spacing body.. I swapped all original guts, but I guess it is technically not a "official" Geddy now but it Plays awesome.

P.S. I had to add the '60s copper grounding strip at the bridge. I didn't want to have to drill a hole for a wired ground.
 
#52
Alex J said:
Yep, there is definitely a noticeable difference in tone.

I much prefer 70s spacing - it just seems growlier and brighter to me, regardless of strings/technique/any other factor. The only downside, as others have mentioned, is playing fingerstyle over the bridge pickup is hard.
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Agree, it is brighter. There is no doubt about that. I have played a J bass for decades and it's pretty clear that my 60's spaced J has more warmth. Sure, there are going to be guys saying it sounds like them when they play it, that's besides the point. It's easy to hear that sharper tone especially on string pops. It boils down to if you prefer more snap or more mids. It's subtle enough to where someone who doesn't know any better or care, it won't matter. But it's there.
 
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#53
Most of the J Bass I've ever played had the bridge pickup in the 60s position. But when I bought a Fender Marcus Miller signature Jazz bass and even when I played it in passive mode, I realized there is a tonal difference between the 60s and 70s basses. The key is that CBS-era Fender moved the bridge pickup back about a 1/4" of an inch so the pickup would be hidden under its ashtray bridge cover. Played with flatwounds and the string mute engaged I'm sure most bassists in the 70s couldn't really tell the difference(esp. those in chemically altered mindsets...LOL). But remove the mute, put on some Rotosounds, and get to slapping and popping, the difference in the attack and the midrange becomes more apparent. The 60s has a rounded midrange and warm bass, while the 70s midrange is edgy with a tighter sounding bass. Again, that's the difference I hear between the two instruments. Not necessarily a bad thing per se, just slightly different.
 
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#54
I prefer the sound of the 60's pickup placement. I really love the smoother midrange tone. It's just more musical sounding to my ears.

As a matter fact i just picked up a new Classic 60s Jazz 4 (this week) and really love the tone and feel of the neck.
I laid down the main bass part of a classic R&B tune this morning (using it the 60s Jazz). The main bass part is mostly the bridge pickup and the short solo in the middle is the neck pickup soloed. The neck pickup soloed sounds fairly close to a P-bass (IMO).
It's a bass orchestra tune (all bass) and I used my Roscoe tuned E-C for all other bass parts.

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#56
I have played a Squier VM 70s JB and I currently own a Fender Player JB with 60s pickup spacing.

I have strong hands and I tend to play rather hard. My basses are set up with a medium action.

With all pots fully open, the tone of the Squier 70s VM is a bit brighter and a tad thinner, the tone of the (60s) Player is bit fuller and a tad darker.

The woods are not the same on both basses (maple vs alder).

There is not much of a difference indeed, but I definitely prefer the (60s) Player over the 70s VM.
 
#59
Here is what I found that I prefer . I kind of discovered this by accident with the purchase of my American Geddy Lee.

Alder body
Maple neck and fretboard
70’s pickup placement
High mass bridge
True single coils

These combinations are not at all easy to come by . It’s even more rare in a 5 string . Not unless you have a custom build done or out something together yourself.

The necks carve and fretboard radius on both of these are also not that common. Along with the string spacing , both are a perfect fit for my hands.

076D8A97-6F89-4B54-9E72-7123511A6E6A.jpeg
 
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#60
Yeah I have both a Classic 60s Series Jazz (2018) and a MIA Geddy. The Classic 60s sounds just as aggressive as the Geddy so really there isn't a whole lot of difference and if you throw in the Tech 21 YYZ or 2112 pedals.. both sound the same anyway.

Now, the Rickenbacker has a growl that nothing comes close to in my opinion. Not even my Warwick Corvette $$ that I might sell. I'm completely sold on passive basses.
 

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