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70's Prog Rock

The two albums preceding Worlds Apart, Silent Knight and Images at Twilight, are really good. (Haven't been able to find their debut album at a decent price. :() Behaviour, Security of Illusion (the return of the original band) and 10,000 Days (the return of Michael Sadler) are excellent as well.

I have Saga's debut album on vinyl and CD. It is one of my favorites. When it came out, I bought it without knowing anything about the band or hearing them first. I really liked them. Their first album was engineered so well that the music and stereo store where I bought the album asked me if they could use it to demonstrate surround sound stereo systems.
 
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Agree. Heavy Horses and Songs from the Wood were my favorite albums.

And Pegg and Noyce will always be my favorites for holding the bassist's chair.

However…the back and forth instrumental play in the song In Budapest on Crest of a Knave is (IMO) the fullest and most successful realization of everything they ever set out to accomplish. That one is a true masterpiece in the annals of rock.

I call In Budapest a complete Tull concert masquerading as single song.

That song is one of the few songs I've ever heard that made me wish I wrote it. What happens starting around the 3:35 mark is nothing short of magical.

Props to Martin Barre too for his superb eletric guitar lines and tone which so beautifully complimented Ian's brilliant flute and parlor guitar in that tune.

I get something hard knocked on my head by my friends, when I mention "Crest Of A Knave" a better (still) album than Aqualung. And that is because Budapest ONLY. I still get mocked for that. They DID have some clunkers album wise. But they surprised when played certain tunes live when all of us thought "Hey, they could get that boring song to sound exciting, wow!". That was their forte. Now, please, nuff of Tull. Well as for Tull bassists, Hammond-Hammond had too much of a struggle when playing, Glascock upped the ante (The bass line to HUNTING GIRL from SFTW is still a favorite, and a challenge to play swiftly without effort, and as prog as you can get) Pegg way more than adequate, but nothing beats the simple bass solo that Glen Cornick pulled off on "Stand Up" in Tulls take on Bach's Boureé..

Martin Barre has been a favorite. Limited in playing, and maybe resorting to too much classic blues/rock lines, but still full of emotion, taste and a soulful vibrato. Remember when I woodshedded the intro to "Minstrel In the Gallery". Angular, crazy, whacky, but later on I nailed both guitar and bass parts. Can't remember it today though.
 
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...whereas I can't think of a single Yes tune that's even remotely funny. At least not intentionally...!
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Right on. Agree with the fine line of "How serious can we get?". But I don't lump Yes into any Canterbury Scene band, just because Bruford was in it. It's all revolving around the WYLDE FLOWERS, Robert Wyatt, Kevin Ayers, Gong (Daivd Allen) and thar stuff. Dave Stewarts bands, Egg, National Health, Hatfiled & The North, and Sinclairs bands. Camel was sprung out of Canterbury too, since they name derives from Caravan...They once tried to put those two bands together as a large supergroup called Caramel...;-) I liked Yes a lot. These days I think they should call it a day, before they start to be a parody of themselves. They have to some extent already.

I think it all goes with prog being - basically - a British thing. The american prog where not all over the place, at once. They hadn't these pokey-jokey tunes thrown in every now and then. King Crimson had not, as well as Yes, and definitely not Pink Floyd. Both ELP, Genesis (Gabriel era mind you) could have their way, Oldfield couldn't keep his fingers out from the ending of Tubular Bells part I (where the instruments announcements are made by Viv Stanshall no less.. talking about bonzo do dah earlier, but ingenious). Gentle Giant was a tad "Canterbury" in the beginning, but came from Scotland (mostly) and had this medieval flavor to their thing.

If you listen to bootleg live recordings of Genesis "the lamb" tour, which was serious (well, Counting Out Time was a Music Hall pastiche..to me) you can even hear Peter Gabriel reaching stand up comedy levels in the between number talks. Audiences where left in stitches of laughter, as he mocked and joked about his own characters. He had to, because they had to change something out in the projections at the back which took considerable time. He wanted to take the pretentiousness off a bit.
 
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I'm not familiar with that stuff. How does it compare to this?

cover_18551815102008.jpg

Yes, exactly. Tounge in cheek humour. The inbetween tracks silly tales and proclamations of "toad" or whatever. That's all I can remember. And Fripps rendering of a fast Bach tune.
 
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What I find peculiar. Since this threads has brought up different opinions to the surface, I find it peculiar that everyone should think just because it's prog, it's good.I don't. That any prog fan likes them all. I like that some "hated" ELP and Genesis, while loved "King Crimson, Yes and FLoyd". Me myself had less interest in Canterbury Bands. More interested in the stalwarts. But as time has passed, my patience with ELP has waned. Gentle Giant has stubbornly stood up against the chewing of time. Because they were not overlty overblown and bombastic, and kept their tunes fairly short. No side long epics here. Same with King Crimson.

There were some attemps by behind the Iron Curtain bands, from the east. They were allowed to play and make music like that, because they were somewhat virtuosic. But the elements were not right. They just tried to copy and had reallly nothing of their own. They should allow influences from their own countries, like 3rd world music, and not be so blatantly copying western music. Especially lyrics wise.

Some of the (most) of the Italian bands were great. Italy has a good grip on prog, and Belgium and Italy was the only other countries outside England, that embraced EARLY Genesis even before they became noticed at all in their home country.

Also, I have a slight disdain to prog acts which displays a too "preachy" style in lyrics. They may have pastoral, huge church organ sounds, and anthemic compositions, but whenever I hear the slightest tendency to any religious content that is "preachy" I find it a tad too twee. Those bands doesn't have the guts to rock out completely, they don't dare being bold enough. Although some lumps KING'S X as a prog band, I find that they are on the right side of those preachy lyrics. They manage to keep it down. They've been known as Christians all of them. I find them just a good hard rock band. Very good. They DO have some odd time signatures... so ...well. Borderline prog-metal then...;) Mind you, that prog bands seems to have a greater following throughout "the Bible belt" in USA. Remember that swedish Flower Kings were popular first (for a prog band at least) in that area. People seem to go with the grandeur and acoustics of a large cathedral or church, and likes the music for the similarity of that. And no explicit lyrics.
 
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Agree with the fine line of "How serious can we get?" ...[snip]... He wanted to take the pretentiousness off a bit.

Ah, and there's the rub: As soon as you remove any/all shred of Humor, you run the risk of being Prententious. Almost by definition. It would seem one needs to find a balance between both, without explicitly conveying either, in order to be an appealing Prog band.
 
Since someone mentioned, and stepped across the line, with Return To Forever, Mahavishnu and Dregs I will tip you of ONE album only by the jazz-rock stalwarts PAT METHENY GROUP:

Imaginary Day (1997)

That is really an offshoot from anything he's released. Almost symphonic in all tracks, clever arrangements, and full of "impressionistic" synthesizer layers and cinematic music. 3rd world too. Odd time signatures a lot. It may come across as too "gentle" mixed and "kind" timbre to it all, but underneath it all lies a decent "trip quotient" that are present in most prog rock anyway. And the grammy award winning tune "Roots Of Coincidence" is as prog as it gets. I've never ever heard one tune only that encompasses all of my favorite musical styles in one go, and making it flow seamlessly. Drum'n'bass, hard rock, jazz, ambient, symphonic, soundtrack music, minimalistic, space rock, which ends up in just ... you guessed it... prog! :jawdrop:



Skip all other albums, if you're JUST into prog. They're too jazzy for you.
 
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And then there's this quiet and capable woman who just about single-handedly defined the prog female vocal sound for an entire generation.

Well, she "defined" it because with very few exceptions she was its sole practitioner! What other female vocalist was singing Prog Rock in the 1970s? Dagmar Krouse, and...um...uh...was Kate Bush considered "Prog" on her first two albums? Was Barbara Gaskin recording in the 70s? Did Curved Air record in the 70s? Annie Haslem pretty much had that honorific sewed up the moment she showed up at her first gig. The fact that her voice was astonishing just sealed the deal.

Despite the band having as much stage presence as a coat rack, and their arrangements mostly being as "play it safe" as it comes, that magical voice guaranteed them a place in prog history.

Annie Haslem & Jon Camp were a bit more animated than a coat rack -- in fact, one of my favorite memories of adolescence was watching Annie dance in the wings (while the band played "Prologue") before coming out onstage at the Felt Forum in 1975. And while I'd certainly agree their arrangements were harmonically "safe", Camp's basslines were arguably more adventurous than anyone else in the genre save perhaps Chris Squire and Ray Schulman.
 
Ah, and there's the rub: As soon as you remove any/all shred of Humor, you run the risk of being Prententious. Almost by definition. It would seem one needs to find a balance between both, without explicitly conveying either, in order to be an appealing Prog band.

It's the same thing with hearing the same kind of jokes repeatedly. They all have their past dates. No matter how clever they are, or, WITTY, as it was really all about. First time giggle, second time not, third time made you cringe...with embarrasment. They have their period, and past dates. What was funny then, wasn't that funny... even back then. :rolleyes:

I agree with the balance though. It's a thin fine line balance act.
 
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My prog is
a) devoid of music hall silliness
b) devoid of any preachiness in lyrics (that's right, Barclay James Harvest wasn't really my thing).
c) and has not only to reside on DIATONIC chords and melodies. Yes, they had almost no blue notes ever in their compositions (maybe Relayer had one, incorporated by mr Moraz, stubbornly fighting for it not to be edited out during the mixing sessions ;)) but resorted to "well, if the tune requires a C major chord, so be it ..". Wakeman played almost only "white keys" so to speak. Of course, not only in C but largely diatonic. Genesis, Gentle Giant and ELP, and especially King Crimson could scare us with their occasional flattened fifths, or colored and augmented chords. Even Tull did that. I would love to hear some sense of drama, tension and release, dynamic build ups, and frankly, some minor chords too (!?). And even . lo and behold . some key and chord changes beyond the triads. Yes, do you hear me, Yes (the group I mean!)? I remember when hearing Yes "Circus of Heaven" I thought, "hmmm...are they going to play childrens tunes from now on?". I mean that it should not only be challenging to play, but a bit challenging for the listener too. By and large I liked Yes a lot, but sometimes...like what Wakeman himself thought of "tales..." in which made him leave the group: "listening to that one is like watching paint dry".

The english bands that had some influence from their own past centuries, like medieval and english folk music was slightly more to my liking than anyone else. But that's just taste. One can't say green is better than yellow. One great melody I can remember which relied on medieval and classic VOICE LEADING was a fairly unknown Genesis tune called "Mad Man Moon" from their 4 piece album "Trick Of The Tail". To most others, considered a filler material and forgotten today. Another one, is "Think Of Me With Kidness" from Gentle Giants "Octopus". Almost like a national anthem, medieval rock.

That's why I only like Porcupine Tree's "In Absentia" from them. Their tune "Trains" is full of english medieval folk and minor keys, and hamony vocals. Moody but great. They dodged all that later on, to my disappointment. It was close to reviving the true prog in that they took it all in influences from - then new - electronica, dub, and house music tied together with Beach Boys harmonies, Metallica riffing, and - of course - Pink Floyd.

There have been a few clunkers too in the prog genre. That goes with it. Since it's experimental, it just doesn't always falls into place. I remember one review when U.K. had split up in two divisions, BRUFORD (with Holdsworth), and U.K Danger Money (Jobson, Wetton). They reviewed both with a headline "WHEN PROG ROCK IS AT ITS BEST AND WORST". Guess which one...;)
 
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Quantum Jump

*Yeah I know it's a stretch, but with one bass player from CARAVAN, and Rupert Hine later producing two of SAGAs most succesful albums, Nektars guitar player joined them on tour, I think they're woth mentioning. Maybe ... funk-prog?
 
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Has anyone mentioned FM (the other Canadian trio)?

I honestly haven't listened to their debut album Black Noise since it came out in '77 (?) so I don't even know if it qualifies as "Prog Rock" ...but the fact that I owned the album as a precocious (read: pretentious) 16-year-old makes me think it probably was at least prog-like.

 
Has anyone mentioned FM (the other Canadian trio)?

I honestly haven't listened to their debut album Black Noise since it came out in '77 (?) so I don't even know if it qualifies as "Prog Rock" ...but the fact that I owned the album as a precocious (read: pretentious) 16-year-old makes me think it probably was at least prog-like.



Yep, I mentioned them.