80% ready to make the Markbass buy

[cchorney]

Well just got home from band practice. The CMD102P is indeed LOUD. My guitarist noted its much less muddy than my SWR Workingman's 15 that he's used to hearing. I did notice a high pitched whine when my fingers weren't touching the strings, but this was only when the VLE filter was dialed back to 0 - once I dialed off the highs a bit with the VLE knob the noise went away. It is annoying but I don't know if its a sign of impending failure or just this amp's normal sound. I am really pleased with the combo. It kept up well with my guitarist's Palomino V32 30 watt tube combo and with the drummer. A lot of my "buyer's panic" has receded. I've got a gig on 3/5, that will be the real test.

 

[Hippos Melas]

Keep us posted. This amp is on my radar for sure.

 

[cchorney]

Had my first gig with the CMD102P. I was plugged into a PA so I didn't have to produce for the whole audience, just me and the drummer primarily and the rest of the bank secondarily. But it was a large corner stage so I had the guitarist's (mic'ed but still loud) tube amp pointing right at me. Ok on to impressions:

As expected, it had great tone, and audience members mentioned they could clearly hear the bass without it being overpowering.

I am not quite sure I get why the amp offers the "line out level knob", when I first plugged in the line out xlr cable the sound guy was asking "is that all you got for signal?" until I noticed it was at 12 oclock. I dialed it up to max and he was happy.

The bass is freakishly loud on its own, but I had troubles hearing myself once the band got rolling. I started at about a 2 or 3 (out of 10) for master vol (with the gain properly adjusted) but ended up at about 4.5. I just had a hard time hearing me over the guitar amp aimed right at me and the drums right behind me. Maybe I'm just used to feeling 2x15's worth of air and its more a feel than hear issue, or maybe my ears are getting old. Nor sure.

Tilting the amp up loses a LOT of bass response. Too much.

At one point I was on the edge of farting out one of the 10's. I could hear it on the E string playing open thru about G on the 3rd fret. I dialed down the low and mid-low EQ a bit and went louder instead. Wondering if this is common for 2x10 setups. This box is supposed to be rated at 400 watts and the amp only pushes 300 in this configuration, and I was between 3 and 4 on the master vol dial (and gain was set appropriately - no blue lights). About 5 songs later, I dialed the EQ's back to 12 oclock (my default position), left it louder, and the speakers sounded good again. Either I was mishearing the farting before or I needed to go louder to get past the farting (unlikely) or I was setting off a sympathetic vibration on something near the bass (drum part, rack of guitars and basses) that made a similar noise.

Oh, and schlepping it back and forth from the truck was soooo much easier than any of my previous rigs!

 

[Freddels]

What were all your other settings? VLE? VPF?

 

[anonymous111813]

Dont overlook the 1x12 combo. You can do allot with it by itself or, add another cab for larger venues like I did. I am running a 115 HR cab with mine and sounds huge. Another 1x12 cab sounds great with them too. Adds allot of fullness to the sound. The 1x12 combo will not cut it by itself without breaking up if the drummer is heavy handed though. Markbass recommends using a cab that matches the combo but, I havent found that to be neccasary myself. Allot of people are running the 2x10 combo with a 1x15 cab.

I have played the 112P combo with an extension cabinet, and it was enough for everything including loud rock gigs.

 

[cchorney]

What were all your other settings? VLE? VPF?

VLE is a little less then half (11:30), VPF is a little more (12:30). I play finger style, fleetwood Mac, Motown, early Beatles and other rock flavored classics.

 

[Freddels]

VLE is a little less then half (11:30), VPF is a little more (12:30). I play finger style, fleetwood Mac, Motown, early Beatles and other rock flavored classics.

OK, there's where your problem probably was. The VLE was taking out the highs (more vintage tone) and the VPF was sucking out the mids and boosting the lows and highs. I would suggest turning the VPF to 0 (all the way off).

 

[electracoyote]

Tilting the amp up loses a LOT of bass response. Too much.

At one point I was on the edge of farting out one of the 10's. I could hear it on the E string playing open thru about G on the 3rd fret. I dialed down the low and mid-low EQ a bit and went louder instead. Wondering if this is common for 2x10 setups.

Okay, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, there are many who dearly love the 102P, and I have no doubt that it performs brilliantly in certain applications.

However, I also found it to be just a smidge too little for my situation, which is much like yours. Loud drummer, loud guitarist.

I went with the LMIII/151 combo (a CMD151P to be exact).

Problem solved. A few more pounds, but hardly a back-breaker. I also have an MB 151 extension cab, it hardly ever gets used.

 

[cchorney]

OK, there's where your problem probably was. The VLE was taking out the highs (more vintage tone) and the VPF was sucking out the mids and boosting the lows and highs. I would suggest turning the VPF to 0 (all the way off).

I think you are right - I tried in practice rolling the VPF to 0 and just using the VLE to get the "older" sound (plus my foam muted P bass) and I get the sound I want and the volume I need. Next gig is this Saturday, that will be the proof. (and fun - I love playing to a crowd)

 

[JimmyM]

Tilting the amp up loses a LOT of bass response. Too much.

i used to think that, but no it doesn't. what happens is you are finally hearing mid and high response so the bass seems lower in proportion. in order for it to lose bass response from floor coupling, you have to elevate it about 3 ft. proven fact of audio science.

if you lower your head to listen while it sits on the floor, or go out into the crowd and listen to it when it's on an elevtated stage, you'll notice that it sounds the same as when you tilt it back. so when you tilt it back, it enables you to eq it as the room hears it rather than having all the highs and mids blow past your head but blare into the room. there's really no downside to tilting it back.

 

[Freddels]

I think you are right - I tried in practice rolling the VPF to 0 and just using the VLE to get the "older" sound (plus my foam muted P bass) and I get the sound I want and the volume I need. Next gig is this Saturday, that will be the proof. (and fun - I love playing to a crowd)

Excellent!!!

 

[waveman]

I use a LMIII and Avatar 2x10 (8ohm) with a loud drummer. It holds it's own just fine. In fact, I never really push the amp. We play mostly smaller gigs. I have 1x15 that is monsterous sounding when used with the 2x10. I find that I don't need it, since we get PA support for bigger venues.

 

[BurningSkies]

I think you are right - I tried in practice rolling the VPF to 0 and just using the VLE to get the "older" sound (plus my foam muted P bass) and I get the sound I want and the volume I need. Next gig is this Saturday, that will be the proof. (and fun - I love playing to a crowd)

The VPF control can be tricky, and yes, not using it can be a very viable option. When you get a bit more comfortable with the amp, you'll learn a balancing with the VPF & VLE. If you're careful you can use the VPF to fatten your low lows without scooping your mids and without noticeable addition to your highs. But it's really a precise adjustment and well below the 9 o'clock point on the filter.

 

[Russell L]

I have the CMD 121H combo. It covers small to medium venues with a loud horn band, sometimes ballrooms if the sound is right in the band. I have used it with and without PA support with good success. Sometimes, though, I want an extension cab, maybe the 121 Traveler.

For tone I have enjoyed the VLE at 1:30, VPF at 10:00.

 

[Global Citizen]

I have the 102P combo (same as the Little Mark and the 102P cab) and it's fine for smaller gigs (say, less than 100 people) on its own on stage with a fairly loud ten piece soul/funk/disco band, although I usually run through the PA as well. One of the great things about the combo is the tilt back design, this helps immensely when I'm using it on its own. I've used a separate head and a 210 in the past and it's a pain when you have the cab tilted back on a stand, as you have to put the head somewhere else, sometimes where it's hard to reach. This is the main reason why I prefer the combo. That and it being a single item, one hand carry.

For louder/bigger gigs I run it with the 151P extension cab and it really pumps out some serious bass. Not really necessary to tilt back then as the combo is up higher, although I can still tilt it if I want insanely loud noise beamed directly at my head from about two feet away.

Hey Bassy Bill, both combined are loud enough for most venues?... do they get enough full sound? I hear some people complain about not having enough bottom end.

 

[TN WOODMAN]

I've got the Berlin combo and still love 15s. Don't really need it but am planning to get a NY151 cab to create for me the perfect rig. I was hoping Markbass would offer this cab without the tweeter, at least I'll be able to dial it off. Thanks to TB I am definate in the mindset of matching size drivers.

 

[cchorney]

Thanks to TB I am definate in the mindset of matching size drivers.

Can someone go into "explain to the new guy" mode on matching drivers? I mean, I get it that for non bi-amped amps, you don't have any way of splitting the signal - what goes into one cab goes into the other with no crossover. But is there a further benefit, or reasons to not get something a little different, say 2x10 on top and a 15 (or a 2x12) on the bottom (especially if they both have the same frequency response range, as the Markbass cabs tend to have).

Thoughts?

 

[Gwardar]

I have a LM Tube 800 and Club 151 cab. Sounds great, very happy with the cab but it won't get really that loud (it's an 8-ohm too), so if I need more power I use the head with a 4 ohm 4x10.

Haven't heard the Traveller 151 or NYC, but judging from mine - you probably will be struggling for volume with one cab unless the stuff you play is fairly quiet.

I think it's the speaker cone area rather than the actual RMS rating that matters. One speaker can only move so much air. 2x10 will move more air so it will sound louder IMHO.

 

[JimmyM]

Can someone go into "explain to the new guy" mode on matching drivers? I mean, I get it that for non bi-amped amps, you don't have any way of splitting the signal - what goes into one cab goes into the other with no crossover. But is there a further benefit, or reasons to not get something a little different, say 2x10 on top and a 15 (or a 2x12) on the bottom (especially if they both have the same frequency response range, as the Markbass cabs tend to have).

Thoughts?

there is no advantage whatsoever to mixing cabs. that's not to say it can't work, but the results are unpredictable and sometimes it can work out quite bad indeed with phasing and uneven volume issues. i can honestly say i've never fully liked any mixed cab rig i ever used. some have been ok, some have been pretty decent, but i always end up unplugging one cab or the other and it always works better.

but two of the same cab always works. as you said, they have the same basic freq response, and the speaker size has no bearing on frequency range...most all bass cabs are full range and operate within pretty close tolerances to each other.

 

[cchorney]

Ok, played my 2nd gig with the Markbass CMD102P. VPF=0, VLE=2ish, raised wooden stage, in a corner. I was a Thunder God lol. With the gain properly set I think I topped out at about 3 or 3.5 on the master volume. It helps that we as a band keep the overall volume in the range where the audience feels like they are at a rock show but the bartender can still take orders from patrons without having to resort to sign language. Win-win. Got several complements on the tone and the bass "cutting thru the mix without overpowering it". I was only going thru the amp, no PA support needed. And I was playing my P style Washburn Force-8 Chicago (BRB) with flats and a piece of foam by the bridge as a mute. Ahhh, old school.

Note that in teh picture, the box over my amp is the keyboard player's guitar amp - we were tight for space.