Is this just asking for trouble? I really want what the Mesa D800+ offers, but the wattage is very high. I was hoping if I went with this head I could run it into a single cab, but I don't want to risk blowing speakers and there are very few cabs available that can handle an 800 watt head by themselves (the only one I have found is the Orange Smart Power 4x10 rated at over 1,000 watts, but very expensive).
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Don't get fixated on the wattage maximums on cabs. Those are not consistent and just a general rule of thumb. You can easily run lower wattage rated cabs with higher wattage amps, but just use your ears to listen to your speakers. I routinely run a 300 watt rated 8 ohm cabinet paired with another 600 watt rated 8 ohm cab, with an 800 watt amp. The 4 ohm load gives the amp the ability to drive with the full 800 watts, so I make sure I'm not killing the cabs.
It's not necessary, but I run a compresser as well to kill some of the spikes, keeping the cabs pretty happy so far.
You can also get a high pass filter, as trying to push too many lows is a good way to kill an cab as well.
Good luck and you will be fine with a lower rated cab if you use your ears.
It's not necessary, but I run a compresser as well to kill some of the spikes, keeping the cabs pretty happy so far.
You can also get a high pass filter, as trying to push too many lows is a good way to kill an cab as well.
Good luck and you will be fine with a lower rated cab if you use your ears.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
If I was to choose a single cab for the Mesa D800+ right now, it would be the Orange OBC410. It's rated at 600 watts and is an 8 ohm cab:
OBC410 4×10″ Bass Speaker Cabinet – Orange Amps
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There is normally no problem driving a 100 watt speaker with an 800 or whatever watt amp because the actual watts are determined by the speaker and not the amp. This is because the amp is like the mains supply to your house - you only use as much power as the load draws from the supply. In practice distortion will be lowest when the amp has heaps of headroom.
The only risk is that you might overdrive the speaker by cranking up the volume too far. This increases the available power to the speaker.
The only way to determine if this is happening is to listen to the speaker for distortion and also to watch the cone movement. Electrical and/or mechanical damage can occur by overdriving - the cone must not travel further than the rated distance. If the speaker smells like it is burning it will be.
Care should be taken when slapping, or playing hard with a pick, because the peak signal could also overdrive the speaker.
I recently lost an old speaker because its magnet had weakened causing the speaker to lose SPL. I was unaware of the loss of efficiency. Had to crank the amp up higher to make the sound level needed, which resulted in the voice coil burning out. An expensive lesson.
IMHO the general rule of thumb is that the bigger the speaker diameter the better the power performance
With a single 8ohm cab, you're not going to have 800w available anyway (probably 500w). Yes you can use the cab. Just be careful of your volume and eq settings.
You'll be fine and will have the extra power on tap should you choose to add an extra cab. Use your common sense...and volume knob...to keep things in check. Careless behavior will result in driver damage.
Riis
Riis
I use a 1200 watt amp into any cab I use. Even my little single 6. Just watch your volume, that's all. What I do is start at a low volume and whack my B string as hard as I intend to play at max volumes in that context. I then gradually increase the volume until it gets distorted. This way there are no surprises. You'l know how loud that cab can be pushed.Another thing--the 12 that I'm using is rated at 550 watts max. I have clipped 900 watt amps with it. The speakers will handle short peaks well above their ratings.As a matter of fact I have found that having the extra dynamic range of those watts can give more impact to the sound. If you stay below fart-out. You can play an amp rated at 400 watts and one rated at 800 watts at the same perceived volume. You'll notice that while the perceived volume is the same that the speaker hooked up to the 800 watter will have more thump and authority.
Just remember---before the gig---carefully inch up your volume while playing what will be your lowest and hardest attack that you'll be playing. Go until you start hearing distortion, and then back off a bit. I'm using a 1200 watt amp to test all of my speakers at max volume. I've never blown a driver.
Just remember---before the gig---carefully inch up your volume while playing what will be your lowest and hardest attack that you'll be playing. Go until you start hearing distortion, and then back off a bit. I'm using a 1200 watt amp to test all of my speakers at max volume. I've never blown a driver.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,034
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Everybody has a different concept of common sense. Unfortunately, I do see the results of this, or misunderstanding of how power factors into damage. You can't always hear when a speaker is being damaged, especially if a little distortion is being used.
The D800 is rated at 400 watts into 8 ohms and 800 watts into 4 ohms (RMS). I don't see any problem with using the Orange cabinet, it's a plenty good match power-wise.
The D800 is rated at 400 watts into 8 ohms and 800 watts into 4 ohms (RMS). I don't see any problem with using the Orange cabinet, it's a plenty good match power-wise.
as I said---I (rationally) push the crap out of my speakers to find the practical limits---and with a 1200 watt amp. I've got about 300 cabs out there---I test all of them and push to the limits to see if there is any unwanted buzzing, etc. I have been worried that I pushed too hard after I'd hear the speaker farting out. I've never blown a speaker. Now if I was dumber than I am (if that's even possible) and plugged in a single six and had the amp cranked---oh yeah--I'd blow a speaker.
Well, actually I did blow one cab in around 1990. I built a cab with two British Volt 10's. Now these had insane excursion and power handling. Competitive with any 410. ( weighed about the same as each driver weighed 22#. I had just found a first year Music Man. At a medium-high volume (that I'd exceeded in the past) I blew both speakers. The peaks that that MM put out were insane. Hardest hitting bass I've ever played through. I had to use twice as many speakers to use it but man---that impact is the Holy Grail for me. Never matched it. But it did easily blow two drivers. Thanks Leo Fender!!!
Well, actually I did blow one cab in around 1990. I built a cab with two British Volt 10's. Now these had insane excursion and power handling. Competitive with any 410. ( weighed about the same as each driver weighed 22#. I had just found a first year Music Man. At a medium-high volume (that I'd exceeded in the past) I blew both speakers. The peaks that that MM put out were insane. Hardest hitting bass I've ever played through. I had to use twice as many speakers to use it but man---that impact is the Holy Grail for me. Never matched it. But it did easily blow two drivers. Thanks Leo Fender!!!
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,034
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Different opinions from different points of view. Nothing wrong with that, just choose the opinion that fits your comfort level.
In addition to what Andy says about not always hearing the distortion (or if masked by effects, or if the past Xmax makes a nice and desireable grind), the distance from Xmax to Xlim varies between different drivers. To me that distance is an important factor in driver selection. But, as usual on a Saturday night, there is beer involved in this post.
I need to make a trip up to Chi-town for the Filipino consultant. Perhaps I can swing by and meet your awesomeness
Al Kraft
Supporting Member
- May 2, 2016
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The other neat trick on the Mesa Subway heads is that you can always flip the switch on the back to the 2 Ohm position if you feel you have too many Watts on tap for a 4 or 8 Ohm cab. As I understand it, this will essentially throttle back the power amp a bit so it will be delivering less than its rated power to the 4 or 8 Ohm loads. Of course a 2 Ohm load will still have the full 800 Watts available in this poistion.
While I think that's overkill for this situation, it's always there as an extra safety net/electronic output governor if you feel need it.
While I think that's overkill for this situation, it's always there as an extra safety net/electronic output governor if you feel need it.
If it's a single 8 ohm cab (common), the Mesa output is 400 watts. Add a second 8 ohm cab dropping the load to 4 ohm and the Mesa output is 800 watts. Simple solution: buy an 8 ohm cab. Here's the manual:
http://www.mesaboogie.com/media/User Manuals/070533-Subway_D800_Plus_160825.pdf
Riis
http://www.mesaboogie.com/media/User Manuals/070533-Subway_D800_Plus_160825.pdf
Riis
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,034
- 5
- 220,935
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
I urge everybody to fully understand HOW speakers are rated, and why it's possible to have a high numerical rating without having a high real world rating. For example, the difference using a 2 hour test will result in a numerical rating of between 25% and 35% higher than using a more conservative pro audio 200 hour test, all other things being the same.
Another common misconception is adding some absurd power handling rating of a tweeter to the system power. For example, it's not uncommon to claim 100, 150 or 200 watts power handling for the tweeter. Where they get this rating I have no idea because under real lab testing, all of these parts fail at less the 25 watts RMS! (Some MUCH less).
If you buy a cabinet that claims exceptional power handling, I recommend that you look into how the warranty coverage is handled. Usually "overpowering" is excluded, but who determines what is overpowered when actual damage occurs.
Another common misconception is adding some absurd power handling rating of a tweeter to the system power. For example, it's not uncommon to claim 100, 150 or 200 watts power handling for the tweeter. Where they get this rating I have no idea because under real lab testing, all of these parts fail at less the 25 watts RMS! (Some MUCH less).
If you buy a cabinet that claims exceptional power handling, I recommend that you look into how the warranty coverage is handled. Usually "overpowering" is excluded, but who determines what is overpowered when actual damage occurs.
they have ways to determine if you are overpowering. A customer had a woofer go out on him and that he wasn't pushing too hard. Eminence determined that it wasn't overpowering and actually was a defect. They can tell.Besides for my 1200 watt stuff I have an EA Doubler ( 3 lb. amp with 800 watts. )that I swapped out the Ice 125 to the Ice 250. Works perfectly.So good that I found out that EA swapped out for the 250 on the new models. So---it puts out 800 watts into 4. It's the amp I take to gigs where I need my 6" or 8" cabs. It easily has enough wattage to blow either.But it works great for everything from a jazz duo with the 6 to a big R&B band where I bring the big guns.
My 6" speaker is rated at 150 watts. So, Andy are you saying that I should go out and buy a 150 watt amp so I don't inadvertently blow the speaker? I think I'll just do as I always have---listen and use common sense.
My 6" speaker is rated at 150 watts. So, Andy are you saying that I should go out and buy a 150 watt amp so I don't inadvertently blow the speaker? I think I'll just do as I always have---listen and use common sense.
No problem. I do it all the time. There's a volume knob on the amp that controls the power output. Use it judiciously.
