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800 watt head into a 500 watt cab?

#46
DWBass said:
I don't get it either. I've never needed more than 500w. I've routinely gigged a 200w-250w amp with plenty of volume. Gotta be a rock thing. Just way too loud. Why even use a PA?
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Exactly. I'd be pushing my Ripper with Rotosounds through an Acoustic 150 guitar head into an Acoustic 301 18" folded-horn (not the world's most efficient cab by any measure) and be walking bottles and glasses off the shelves behind the bar at The Rat if I put the volume up much above 3. I know because I got asked to turn down by the management when I had the amp on 4 and the volume on my bass set at 8. And The Rat was not adverse to very loud music. I'm sure I got my share of ear damage playing and frequenting clubs like that in my ill spent youth.
 
#47
As an aside:
Don't get the Orange.
It is well made and sounds good, but it's a very common box style using off-the-shelf Eminence speakers. It's pretty much the same as any number of Peavey 4x10's, with nothing but the name to justify the higher pricetag.
For the price they ask, you can look into used Bergantinos, Barefaced, any number of other small builders. You'll get a better cab for as much or less money, and it won't weigh 100lbs.

/commonsense
 
#48
MrLenny1 said:
I run a 350 watt amp into a 200 watt cab
but I DO Not run the amp Wide Open.
Common sense, remember that, what Mom & Dad tried to
explain to you, what should be taught in school today says, Don't do that.
Click to expand...
Can common sense be learned from someone else?
Can it be called "common" if not everyone already has it?
Is it common sense to assume everyone has common sense?
It makes my head hurt! :wacky:
 
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#49
DWBass said:
I don't get it either. I've never needed more than 500w. I've routinely gigged a 200w-250w amp with plenty of volume. Gotta be a rock thing. Just way too loud. Why even use a PA?
Click to expand...


If I need to feel loud(er) I just bring a few cabs to move more air, creating a bigger sweet spot on stage when playing without in ear monitoring. This is a perfect example of filling a space with a lower wattage head. This was about a month ago opening for a national act. For other reasons my main rig wasn't able to be used so I used my old Peavey Megabass to power the cabs. The Megabass has two 200 watt amps inside, and into an 8 ohm cab per side, I'm guessing it was running at about 100 watts are so. (I'm not a pro audio guy, just guessing here) and it killed. Way louder than I needed and opened up a great pocket so I could move around some. I'm guessing it's bacause of all the speakers I was using instead of the power I was pushing. I have little doubt 100 watts into a single 10 or 12"" inch speaker would have left me wanting more where I would have turned to get more volume, finding the limits of both amp and cab. I know there are some insanely effiecient cabs made now that probably could crush this system, but I'd guess I'd have to power it with more than 100 watts a cab to get the same sound.

My point to the rambling? Those old amps felt loud because of the multiple speakers instead of the power.

image.jpeg
 
#51
tbird46553 said:
Schroeder builds many cabs that will handle over 1000 watts.
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I'm quite certain that the power ratings listed are for peak, not continuous power. Most power ratings for woofers are stating the point where you reach thermal failure---in other words--frying the voice coil . Speaker fartout will occur much sooner.In that case, I could rate many of my cabs at 1000 watts. They'll handle bursts like that. So will Schroeder's. But--if I fed music at a continuous 1000 watts---I'd fry that driver in a few minutes. This is no slam against Schroeder---everyone rates their cabs like this. Spec wars, as I call it. So, unfortunately, again we specs that don't necessarily represent reality. It's really hard as a manufacturer not to be lured into this path. Most are doing this.
I'm going to have to ask Jorg about the tweeter rated at 200 watts. Mine only handle 30 watts.
 
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#52
40Hz said:
Exactly. I'd be pushing my Ripper with Rotosounds through an Acoustic 150 guitar head into an Acoustic 301 18" folded-horn (not the world's most efficient cab by any measure) and be walking bottles and glasses off the shelves behind the bar at The Rat if I put the volume up much above 3. I know because I got asked to turn down by the management when I had the amp on 4 and the volume on my bass set at 8. And The Rat was not adverse to very loud music. I'm sure I got my share of ear damage playing and frequenting clubs like that in my ill spent youth.
Click to expand...


Do you mean the legendary Boston club known as The Rathskeller?

The Rathskeller - Wikipedia
 
#53
TrevorOfDoom said:
As an aside:
Don't get the Orange.
It is well made and sounds good, but it's a very common box style using off-the-shelf Eminence speakers. It's pretty much the same as any number of Peavey 4x10's, with nothing but the name to justify the higher pricetag.
For the price they ask, you can look into used Bergantinos, Barefaced, any number of other small builders. You'll get a better cab for as much or less money, and it won't weigh 100lbs.

/commonsense
Click to expand...

I am going off memory ten years past, but I tried a head through one of the Orange 4X10's way back then and it sounded exceptional. But I was used to using Avatar bass cabs, and didn't (still don't) have a ton of experience with really nice cabs.
 
#55
Mike Arnopol said:
So, unfortunately, again we specs that don't necessarily represent reality.
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IMO it's kind of tough to represent reality in wattage specs. Even if you specify a recommended amp power range in WRMS, or even a specific list of amps known to work well with a given came, someone would dime all the knobs or overdrive the bejesus out of it, pop an expensive driver, and blame you. I can see me being that guy, but I would only blame myself and not you ;)

Not necessarily directed at the OP, but it's important for people to understand that a lower wattage amp can produce much more power than it's rated at. Likely 50 to 100% more when operated by someone behaving badly.
 
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#56
ficelles said:
Great quote :) Select the opinion that tells you what you want to hear?
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Respectfully, I would say that the real message was that unless a topic is purely black or white, you need need to decide what shade of gray works for you, in your situation. For me at least, that's different than picking an opinion I want to hear. In my mind, the latter tends to be more of a biased way of listening and the former a mode of learning and thoughtfully applying new found knowledge/insight.
 
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#57
Al Kraft said:
Respectfully, I would say that the real message was that unless a topic is purely black or white, you need need to decide what shade of gray works for you, in your situation. For me at least, that's different than picking an opinion I want to hear. In my mind, the latter tends to be more of a biased way of listening and the former a mode of learning and thoughtfully applying new found knowledge/insight.
Click to expand...

Too true.

Unfortunately the latter rather than the former interpretation tends to hold sway these days. Especially now that one's "right" to have your own opinion is used as justification for the imagined "right" to chose (or even make up) one's own "facts."

Such is the high tariff a society pays for tolerating and (in some quarters) encouraging and glorifying an individual or group's ignorance.
 
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#58
Mike - everybody doesn't necessarily rate their cabinets that way. Some do choose a more conservative approach in spite of the (sometimes severe) marketing disadvantages.

At the suggestions of forum participants here on TB, we provided a much more detailed set of published specs, complete with mechanical and thermal power handling (based on RMS metrics) , F3, F6 and F10 points, etc. Accurate, conservative numbers are rarely impressive from marketing standpoint.

If this information is so important to you guys (as was strongly suggested in the thread where the discussion took place), you should then push the rest of the industry to follow suit and provide the same information in the same way. Then, you will see that the products that sport excessively impressive numbers are much closer when compared based on similar metrics.
 
#60
I was doing a gig and using a Sans Amp DI. My head was fine with my wireless, but my batteries quit, so I went to cable.
Once I did that, I noticed it was getting really hot, so I just went sans amp direct the rest of the gig.

I use a Trace Elliot head, AH250SMX, and a Traynor TC410 Neo (800w/8ohms). (DI out on it needs fixing).

Been thru the whole "did I underpower my head" thread leading up to purchasing the cab. Did a gig last week no problems, used house DI, not powered. Shorter gig by half hour.

Not sure *** happened.

Advice?

Advice on new head, or can I buy a power amp to boost my Trace.

Thx.
 

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