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8x10 - Why?

The 8x10 is also good for making upright players point and laugh.

Tell that to Jimbo of The Reverend Horton Heat. He amplifies his DB with TWO 810's. He probably laughs at most electric players. Loudly, and with gestures.

I use an 810 whenever I can simply because it moves more bass at less audible volume. In other words, the bass shakes the room even though I'm not overpowering the band. Good, solid bass even though my amp's master volume isn't past 9 o' clock yet? Sign me up!
 
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I stood in front of this rig yesterday with my friend playing it, and for the first time, I got to feel how loud this rig truly gets. For "only 120 watts," it's truly bowel moving. :hiding:

By the way, cabs eventually to be replaced with three Schroeder 4x12s, and one dummy cab with a mini-fridge inside. :smug:
 
PLaying big shows, arena shows or big outdoor venues requires more gear and volume than a regular gig. Even with good PA support and monitors you still like and need to hear everybody, specially yourself.

With a good 410 or 610 and nice monitoring (or in-ears) we can play any gig. But sometimes good monitoring isn't there or isn't up to the task pf providing good bass response plus drums so multiple bass cabs help in that way.

I have a pair on 410s and an 810. The 810 is actually easier to cary and move than the 410s, lighter and more compact vs the 410 stacked on each other.

Besides, the rush of playing through an 810 cab is just something that should be experienced by everyone IMO. It's like a full-stack for guitarists or a huge great drumset for drummers. Not always needed, but oh does it feel gooooood.:p
 
Damn straight... unless you've got two...


You mean like this? :D :bassist:

the_rig_2005.gif


It's a beeyatch to load in and out. But the visual effect is the kicker!
 
firstly, adding more speakers is always a better bet for adding volume than adding more wattage... so I'd rather have a 500watt 810 than a 1000watt 410 on stage with me any day. Headroom is a different story though...

On some stages, with a loud band, an 8x10 or two is the only way you are gonna hear yourself onstage. The PA system is for the audience, the cab is for your referance. Monitors can't always (actually just about always!) can't handle a decent bass mix, plus you are reliant on someone else eq'ing and turning your sound up or down...

There are lots of arguments about this kinda thing, but at the end of the day, if we didn't have to carry and transport our own gear, then 9 out of 10 of us bassists probably wouldn't say no to having a fridge or two behind us on stage :-)
 
Besides, a fridge isn't even that efficient, and not super bass heavy in spite of a what some people assume. So there's probably as much wash into the other mics, and as much bleeding into the FOH with a modern efficient 4x10 as with a sealed 8x10.

I gig regularly but the amount of venues we play with a good enough PA for bass is precisely one. With my Bergantino NV610 (about as loud as an Ampeg fridge and with more lows) and sometimes a Bag End 15 or two I can fill up the venues we play with the bass tone I want.

A lot of bigger venues also have big stages, so I can understand bassists wanting to hear themselves properly there as well, and monitors are usually not all that great for bass, depending on the venue, of course.

I have trouble believing there was no difference between bass in a decent PA and one 8x10 fridge in a venue for 2500 people, except for maybe where the sound booth was. I do agree having loud stage bass in a medium size venue can make a sound guy's job hell, though.

Regarding having more than 500 or 600w being overkill, a lot of 8x10s have a 300w tube head on top. Even if you have a SS head with 1200w or more it doesn't mean you'll be louder, rather you'll have more headroom and solider and more dynamic tone at lower volumes, so the wattage is really a non-issue.

I've never overpowered the other instruments in a mix with my rig, even running my SVT in it's sweet spot. I do sometimes roll a bit of bass off on the head since I got the Bergie, though.
 
Ampeg fridge is sealed, and it gives off a very distinct tone. I get a similar tone with my Berg sealed 610. Having speakers at ear level helps to hear- esp with Marshall stacks and loud drummers. Finally, the PA at many venues only runs the kick and vox.

Soo true.

To the original poster. Unless you have tried an 810 (preferably with a tube head ;) ) at a loud rock gig, dont knock it :)
 
Just a comment and not trying to persuade those against 8x10s -- It definately was fun to watch the hairs on my legs vibrate as I stood in front of my 8x10 in shorts.

Also, folks have spoken about "presence" -- I wouldn't have come up with that word but that seems to fit.

Oh, btw, there were gigs where I showed up with the 8x10 and simply turned it down.

Finally, now that I'm older I'd love to have all of that effect without the hassle of the carrying. If someone could come up with modular, 50lb or lighter cabs that give me the same effect and tone as that 8x10 that'd be it for me.

HooBass
 
I'm trying to understand why someone would need the big "fridge" cabs. Of course they're not very practical to transport, etc, but even with all of that stuff aside, why would someone need it.

Loudness? You can get 4x10 cabs that handle 1000watts RMS. My dad is a soundman, he was doing a very loud rock show in a venue of about 2500. Bassist was playing through the ampeg fridge with an SVT-2 or similar on top. Mid-song my dad says "here, I'll take the bass out of the PA entirely". Can't even hear the difference. He says, "yeah, and the guy wanted TWO 8x10's". Isn't that what PA is for?

Plus, the "wash" that envelops the stage, getting into all of the mikes and mudding up everything. If you can't hear, get a better monitor mix, right?

I guess it's just an image thing?

TONE and FEEL

It is the defacto standard for bass. Nothing can compare. For regular gigs they're pretty much overkill unless you have a roadie and a van. Even an SVT head is too physically heavy to gig regularly with (IMHO).
 
My personal favorite thing about running my SVT rig (SVT-CL & 8x10E) is backing up against it. Finding that groove & holding it down for the rest of the guys to jam on top of... just leaning back against my cabinet -- enjoying the moment. It's like getting a pat on the back, literally.
 
Finally, now that I'm older I'd love to have all of that effect without the hassle of the carrying. If someone could come up with modular, 50lb or lighter cabs that give me the same effect and tone as that 8x10 that'd be it for me.

I hear ya. Unfortunately the only replacement I've found is the Bergantino NV610. It's far less heavy and bulky than the old 8x10, but even so it's 95 pounds and non-modular.
 
When I was looking to replace my cab (hartke vx1508) with something else I had my mind set on smaller. However, after playing a number of 4x10s, 2x10 + 1x15, etc. I settled on a markbass 6x10. The thing was just a giant wall of bass love. I got compliments from our regulars on how much better it sounded than my other rig, so much deeper and fuller.

So while it would be really great to show up to a gig with one of those tiny rigs (like a 1x12 and a lmk2) it just does't fit for what I play (mostly caribbean & reggae). I can see the smaller rigs being fine for some scenarios (little jazz gigs, etc). But when you want a giant wall of ball rattling bass, you need more speakers.

The mb 610 is also quite a big lighter than the ampeg 610 and 810. Mine if front ported two, which just adds to the love (imho).


It is all about what sounds best to you, not what is loudest.
 
Bergantino NV610. It's far less heavy and bulky than the old 8x10, but even so it's 95 pounds and non-modular.

Ooh. 95 lbs isn't as bad as I thought it would be. I just assumed the NV610 would exceed 125lbs or so. My HT322 is 95 lbs and, though I love it, is ported and with a horn.

Maybe an NV610 in my future? I really shouldn't, but gosh....

HooBass
 
In order to answer your question of "why?" I'm going to have to address several assumptions you makes, all of which indicate you have never played a gig with an 8x10 bass cabinet:

Of course they're not very practical to transport, etc, but even with all of that stuff aside, why would someone need it.

This is almost always the first "gem" of advice hauled out (pun intended) regarding 8x10s and it is patently false. I've played several different cab configurations over the years, and the 8x10 was by far the easiest transport. Two 4x10's means more trips and you're more likely to be carrying them by yourself. Then there's skinned knuckles on doorframes from side handles and the extra factor of structural instability. On a lot of wobbly stages, you can take the head off the top of the cabs, but you rarely have space to place two side-by-side (and doing so negates most of their acoustical benefit anwyay). So, if you have need of 8x10 volume, you're no better off carrying smaller cabs just for the mythical 'ease of transport' factor.

Loudness? You can get 4x10 cabs that handle 1000watts RMS.

So what? Power is not a direct indicator of volume, much less power handling.

My dad is a soundman, he was doing a very loud rock show in a venue of about 2500. Bassist was playing through the ampeg fridge with an SVT-2 or similar on top. Mid-song my dad says "here, I'll take the bass out of the PA entirely". Can't even hear the difference. He says, "yeah, and the guy wanted TWO 8x10's". Isn't that what PA is for?

...and that's the very reason the cabs were needed. If in a 2500 seat venue there is no bass in the PA, then the player had better have it onstage. The fact that it could be removed entirely from the PA and still sound the same means that your dad wasn't doing his job. I'll bet the kick drum was thunderous, though.

Plus, the "wash" that envelops the stage, getting into all of the mikes and mudding up everything.

The vertical arrangement of an 8x10 means that it beams its sound in a far more focused manner and actually produces far LESS wash than a shorter cab.

If you can't hear, get a better monitor mix, right?

I have yet to EVER hear a monitor mix that could even come close to doing my bass sound as well as an 8x10 cab. You spoke earlier about stage wash; monitors are FAR, FAR worse for this, especially with bass, than almost any dediciated bass cab. Look at it logically: you have a bass cab on the backline, roughly 10-15 feet from a mic or you have a monitor either in front of of literally right behind a mic. You start pumping anything below 200 Hz through that montior and I guarantee you'll get stage wash a LOT quicker than if the same signal was put through a bass cab on the backline.

I guess it's just an image thing?

There's no need to insult players who use 8x10's, which is what that statement is. Quite simply, it's like making fun of a farmer for driving a tractor. An 8x10 is a tool that lots of bass players have employed to great success for decades regardless of any "image thing." Like tubes, if there was a way to accurately replicate its benefits in anything more "practical,' then it would exist only for nostalgia factor, but the fact remains that it is the de-facto standard for over 90% of touring bass players and except for the super rich mega-PA tours, they're NOT for looks. Just because you think you can get by with something else doesn't mean that everyone can.
 
For the record, I'd like to point out that I've never made fun of farmers driving tractors.

With regards to backline support, monitors, stage wash, etc: It is possible, given a little thought, to produce a robust full-house sound while maintaining the stage volume at a level low enough to carry on a normal conversation.

Riis
 
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I stood in front of this rig yesterday with my friend playing it, and for the first time, I got to feel how loud this rig truly gets. For "only 120 watts," it's truly bowel moving. :hiding:

By the way, cabs eventually to be replaced with three Schroeder 4x12s, and one dummy cab with a mini-fridge inside. :smug:

The penisless one returns!! :D ;)

You're a crazy man Sean...