8x10 - Why?

[pickles]

This is almost always the first "gem" of advice hauled out (pun intended) regarding 8x10s and it is patently false. I've played several different cab configurations over the years, and the 8x10 was by far the easiest transport. Two 4x10's means more trips and you're more likely to be carrying them by yourself. Then there's skinned knuckles on doorframes from side handles and the extra factor of structural instability. On a lot of wobbly stages, you can take the head off the top of the cabs, but you rarely have space to place two side-by-side (and doing so negates most of their acoustical benefit anwyay). So, if you have need of 8x10 volume, you're no better off carrying smaller cabs just for the mythical 'ease of transport' factor.

A huge +1 here. I'm using a 4x12 which is even nicer to transport since it has the same great form factor but is 65 odd lbs lighter! You just need a pickup, van, or wagon ... then the fridge is way more portable than a 4x10.

I'm a recent convert to the fridge format and can't see going back. Now I want an SVT cab! I've always used this many speakers but it was always a two-cab setup. An array of speakers about the size of an 8x10 is simply the scale our instrument exists on. A small, loud, point source doesn't sound right to me. More speakers, less overpowering = better tone IMHO.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

With regards to backline support, monitors, stage wash, etc: It is possible, given a little thought, to produce a robust full-house sound while maintaining the stage volume at a level low enough to carry on a normal conversation.

Riis

...if you play quiet music with a first rate PA in a first rate venue. In the world of rock, crap bars, and even crappier PA's, there HAS to be enough stage volume to make a sonic presence. I've played outdoor festival gigs with a full 300kw PA and I would have been sunk had I not had my SVT/810. The bottom line is this: if you can trust your sound and tone to the PA/soundguy/monitors, then there is no reason to be carrying a big cab, otherwise don't presume that those of us who do are volume-addicted neanderthal egomaniacs compensating for small genitalia with big cabs. (As an aside, I have yet to EVER have a fan say anything about what my rig looks like, but have had many, many complements on my bass sound. I don't need a big cab to impress the ladies.)

 

[pickles]

You can always turn down. Large format cabs sound great at low levels ... SVT heads are another story, but thats not what this thread is about

 

[Curtybob]

It is possible, given a little thought, to produce a robust full-house sound while maintaining the stage volume at a level low enough to carry on a normal conversation.

Riis

Ever played with a drummer? If you can hold a normal conversation on stage while playing, then something is seriously wrong.

 

[Zooberwerx]

...if you play quiet music with a first rate PA in a first rate venue. In the world of rock, crap bars, and even crappier PA's, there HAS to be enough stage volume to make a sonic presence. I've played outdoor festival gigs with a full 300kw PA and I would have been sunk had I not had my SVT/810. The bottom line is this: if you can trust your sound and tone to the PA/soundguy/monitors, then there is no reason to be carrying a big cab, otherwise don't presume that those of us who do are volume-addicted neanderthal egomaniacs compensating for small genitalia with big cabs. (As an aside, I have yet to EVER have a fan say anything about what my rig looks like, but have had many, many complements on my bass sound. I don't need a big cab to impress the ladies.)

Was that a statement in general or directed at me specifically? Yes, we do our own sound and the venues range from small to medium in size. However, I've played the Virginia Beach oceanfront using only a Yorkie 2 X 10 combo for backline support. The sound guy ran a line from the Yorkie's DI, threw a wedge monitor in front of me, and away we went. Saw Freddy Jackson (Steely Dan) at the Ntelos Pavillion Friday night. Huge venue but all he needed was an SWR head with an SWR 4 X 10 combo (mic'd of course!).

As far as drummers go, all I can say is "sheeesh!" We've fired drummers for being too loud and have not been asked back to a couple of clubs for the same reason.

Riis

 

[mandrlane]

I find it hard to believe an 8x10 would ever be considered easy to move around!

I think the real genius with the 8x10 is that typicaly tens suck when you push a low B hard at volume... they break up and general suck... And yes... I took my Dingwall around to every shop I could find and played every 10 under the sun...

OK... so the genius part... the 8x10 has so many tens you can actualy reproduce a low frequence at volume... 2x10/4x10 break up... 8x10 can actually handle it.

But for me the weight is just too rediculous... hence I went with two Accugroove tri15... massive sound yet last gig I walked on stage with a fifteen in each hand... didn't break a sweat... completely self sufficient

 

[rockstarbassist]

But for me the weight is just too rediculous... hence I went with two Accugroove tri15... massive sound yet last gig I walked on stage with a fifteen in each hand... didn't break a sweat... completely self sufficient

mmm, the Mega-Whappo!!

I hope Mark gets better soon- I want one'a those babies to put under my Jr.!

 

[Zooberwerx]

Ever played with a drummer? If you can hold a normal conversation on stage while playing, then something is seriously wrong.

No, not really. I had to think long and hard about this one to come up with an example: We'll be hammering out a tune and Tim, our guitarist, will turn to me and say something like "harmonies were off", "straight into the Twist Medley" without having to even raise his voice. Our drummer is quite good and shows a lot of restraint.

Riis

 

[gold_member_321]

Its always better to have more, and have to turn down if needed, than not have enough and find yourself saying "Oh ****" Before a big gig.

But of course my opinion, being 6'4" 330 lbs would be different from someones thats under 6 foot, its not that hard to load and unload an 810 for me.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Was that a statement in general or directed at me specifically?

... a little of both. The "with a little thought" of part your previous post is a little high and mighty, but the penis size/image comments are more general.

Yes, we do our own sound and the venues range from small to medium in size. However, I've played the Virginia Beach oceanfront using only a Yorkie 2 X 10 combo for backline support. The sound guy ran a line from the Yorkie's DI, threw a wedge monitor in front of me, and away we went. Saw Freddy Jackson (Steely Dan) at the Ntelos Pavillion Friday night. Huge venue but all he needed was an SWR head with an SWR 4 X 10 combo (mic'd of course!).

Great. Now try playing a hard rock gig that way. Not everyone plays 'middle of the road-background music' (radio demographic term), especially not the 8x10 crowd. I'm not saying what you do doesn't work for you, but your situation is NOT germane to this topic, since you obviously don't need an 8x10. I don't like Steely Dan, nor would I ever want to sound like them even though I have huge amounst of respect for the musicianship their studio cats have. (the guitar solo on "Reelin' in the Years" was a Strat through an SVT, BTW) You want to get my attention, tell me Lemmy dumped his 4x12 stacks or Frank Bello quit carrying fridges in favor of 2x10 combos.

As far as drummers go, all I can say is "sheeesh!" We've fired drummers for being too loud and have not been asked back to a couple of clubs for the same reason.

...and this highlights the gulf between our styles of music. I play biker bars (not midlife crisis executive biker bars- REAL Hell's Angels type biker bars.) The band HAS to be loud and obnoxious. There is no way on earth we could play at conversation levels and expect to get paid or even walk out alive in some cases.

 

[Curtybob]

^^^^^ that's a pretty good post.

I also didn't really mean what I said as offensive, although my poor wording skills shine brightly on that last one. But yeah, different styles require different equipment. You wouldn't play golf with goalie gear on (hockey, that is...) and you wouldn't go rattlesnake wranglin' in one of those Sumo g-string things. At least not without the proper socks. Wow... that's a mental image I didn't need.

Eww.

 

[Zooberwerx]

"With a little thought" means that we always take into consideration our venue, playlist, clientele, available sound reinforcement / equipment, and preshow sound check. We're constantly looking for ways to refine our sound; the audience deserves it. I'm not sure how this practice can be construed as "high and mighty".

Riis

 

[MascisMan]

I must say if I ever walked into a Dinosaur Jr. or Fu Manchu concert and saw the band playing on small guitar/bass combos relying on the PA I would probably request my money back.

The point of these concerts is hear the music LOUD. For reference J. Mascis generally plays 3-4 full Marshall Plexi stacks in a club environment. Obviously when your guitarist is this extreme there is only one solution and it is the 8x10 cab. No monitor mix will beat this kind of arsenal. Some may say this is way overkill, and heck maybe it is...but have you heard Mascis play guitar? His style defines overkill.

As a side note J. Mascis once said that he knows when the show is going good because he can look down at the front row and everyone is squinting.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

"With a little thought" means that we always take into consideration our venue, playlist, clientele, available sound reinforcement / equipment, and preshow sound check. We're constantly looking for ways to refine our sound; the audience deserves it. I'm not sure how this practice can be construed as "high and mighty".

Riis

Allow me to enlighten you:

You imply that if those of us who play 8x10's were as smart as you, with a little thought, we would discover just how foolish we are for using them or for playing loud at all.

Your audience expects something VERY different from mine, and just because you feel yours is superior to the extent of defining the idiom for everyone does not make it so.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Allow me to enlighten you:

You imply that if those of us who play 8x10's were as smart as you, with a little thought, we would discover just how foolish we are for using them or for playing loud at all.

Your audience expects something VERY different from mine, and just because you feel yours is superior to the extent of defining the idiom for everyone does not make it so.

Huh?!?

Now please excuse me while I go look up "idiom"

Riis

 

[mrpackerguy]

How much do the Ampeg and Peavey 8x10's weigh?

 

[rockstarbassist]

How much do the Ampeg and Peavey 8x10's weigh?

Ampeg is in the 160's I believe.
Crazy.

 

[GregC]

You mean like this?

It's a beeyatch to load in and out. But the visual effect is the kicker!

I've said the same thing about women! LOL

See above! Fourstringgirl, I love that you're rockin' the double fridge setup.

 

[Geezerman]

What do you avid 810 guys think about the Ampeg 610?

 

[Fuzzbass]

What do you avid 810 guys think about the Ampeg 610?

It's an OK cab for what it is. Meaning: the 610HLF is ported and tweetered like most modern cabs. The vintage 8x10 cabs are sealed, with no tweeter. Sealed cabs have a special punch to them. For the 8x10 magic, the Bergantino NV610 is a much much much much better option because it too is sealed. Some of us like the NV610 even better than the vintage Ampeg 8x10.