a 4-string and notes below E

[Fieldy Snuts]

SX 5'ers are really inexpensive.

This, seriously, I love my SX 5 string, I don't understand why people have such a fright toward 5 strings, unless you have some kind of medical condition (or your just really stubborn) you'll get used to the small added with of a 5 string in no time and BTW the neck on my jazz SX SJB-75 5 string is not baseball batish at all, its actually quite shallow and sleek.

 

[bdubs16]

Not sure if this has been said on page two but just tune to D and get used to playing everything like that. It's not hard, you just move everything up two frets on the E string to get the same note(s). I have small hands too and don't like the way 5-strings feel. To reiterate, all that happens is instead of playing an A on the 5th fret of the E string, you play it on the 7th fret (with the E string tuned to D). Very simple concept and if you play tuned to D all the time you get used to the thought process very easily.

 

[Illbay]

It turns out that some of the songs require notes lower than E.

What is it that you're playing? Is it a written-out part? Or are you looking at the piano score, perhaps?

Remember that the bass guitar (as well as the double bass) sounds ONE OCTAVE LOWER than written. If you see the low E-note written one ledger-line below the bass clef staff, for example, that particular pitch actually occurs at the 2nd string, second fret, for example.

It is rare to have conventional music, including church music, require notes that low except perhaps on the pedals of the organ (where they typically double the written notes an octave lower).

I suspect the notes you're looking at arent' really as low as you think they are.

 

[dancrocker]

What is it that you're playing? Is it a written-out part? Or are you looking at the piano score, perhaps?

Remember that the bass guitar (as well as the double bass) sounds ONE OCTAVE LOWER than written. If you see the low E-note written one ledger-line below the bass clef staff, for example, that particular pitch actually occurs at the 2nd string, second fret, for example.

It is rare to have conventional music, including church music, require notes that low except perhaps on the pedals of the organ (where they typically double the written notes an octave lower).

I suspect the notes you're looking at arent' really as low as you think they are.

For the songs I'm talking about, I learned the bass part by ear. Based on the notes I played, I figured out what key the song is in (as recorded). Then, when I got the sheet music for the song, I noticed it was in a different key. If I simply shift the bass part down to the sheet music key, I end up with some notes lower than E.

 

[llatikcuf]

Not sure if this has been said on page two but just tune to D and get used to playing everything like that. It's not hard, you just move everything up two frets on the E string to get the same note(s). I have small hands too and don't like the way 5-strings feel. To reiterate, all that happens is instead of playing an A on the 5th fret of the E string, you play it on the 7th fret (with the E string tuned to D). Very simple concept and if you play tuned to D all the time you get used to the thought process very easily.

This would make it hard for other musicians to find the right chords "on the fly" by looking at your hand position. Not good for jamming or songwriting sessions IMO.

 

[bdubs16]

This would make it hard for other musicians to find the right chords "on the fly" by looking at your hand position. Not good for jamming or songwriting sessions IMO.

It'll be hard at first but you just get in the habit of playing that way and then you don't have to think twice about where E is. Same as when you were first learning to play the instrument. I mean I don't really play chords or anything because I don't play that style of music so I may not have the most unbiased perspective. No offense to the OP but it doesn't sound like he plays very technical music so I think this would suite his needs just fine and at no additional cost. If it doesn't work than he can pursue some of the other options previously discussed.

 

[Illbay]

This would make it hard for other musicians to find the right chords "on the fly" by looking at your hand position.

That's an odd concept to me. I have never tried to figure out what a song is by looking at where someone's hand is. To me, it's all ear.

I listen, and then I find the harmonic structure, fiddle around a bit, and I'm usually there.

The whole "let me SEE what you're playing" bit is just foreign to my way of thinking.

 

[Stumbo]

I got talked into it by the music director because they really need a bassist...

IMO, I wouldn't spend cash right off on new equipment for a non-paying gig that may or may not work out.

I'm sure they would be happy with however you played the notes, up and octave or whatever works on your 4 string.

In the mean time, I suggest you visit some music stores and play a few 5 strings to see how they feel. Then make your decision later if the gig really needs the lower notes and how you want to go about getting the lower notes(5 string, drop D, BEAD strings/tuning, etc)

 

[HogieWan]

For the songs I'm talking about, I learned the bass part by ear. Based on the notes I played, I figured out what key the song is in (as recorded). Then, when I got the sheet music for the song, I noticed it was in a different key. If I simply shift the bass part down to the sheet music key, I end up with some notes lower than E.

Now I understand - you're learning the recorded bass part and then the group is shifting the key.

Again, post an example and which key you need to play it, and I'll help out

 

[HogieWan]

IMO, I wouldn't spend cash right off on new equipment for a non-paying gig that may or may not work out.

+1 - however, if they are not paying you, they might agree to pay you a stipend to cover the cost of an instrument if you actually want a 5er

 

[dancrocker]

IMO, I wouldn't spend cash right off on new equipment for a non-paying gig that may or may not work out.

I'm sure they would be happy with however you played the notes, up and octave or whatever works on your 4 string.

In the mean time, I suggest you visit some music stores and play a few 5 strings to see how they feel. Then make your decision later if the gig really needs the lower notes and how you want to go about getting the lower notes(5 string, drop D, BEAD strings/tuning, etc)

Yes, this is precisely what I plan on doing. Thanks for all the suggestions by everyone; they've been very helpful and educational.

 

[JFace]

I think you are better off staying in standard tuning, especially as a novice. I've been in the church music scene for over 5 years, and it really helps to have everyone in standard. Learning new songs can be tough otherwise. Keeping your muscle memory to one standard tuning is essential for learning the basics (scales, progressions, etc.). Once you get into "pro" status, then you might consider messing around with other tunings. I've played around with drop C tuning, and it actually sounds out of place to me. I would rather play the octave up. Also, try playing the notes on the E string, rather than the A and D strings. For instance, play C# on the 9th fret of the E string. It will sound warm and full.

 

[LightGroove]

Hey man...some of us just don't like 5's...medical condition or not..Sure a thumb rest is nice and so is the occasional bomb but Its all about personal preference

Anyways...I'm not following your issue Dan.. Are you just learning the bass and not comfortable with different octaves? What is it your being asked to do bass wise? I can't see a full out rock/praise show in a catholic church so are these hymns? Are the songs written in a specific key for vocal consideration? I run into this a lot as the singers on that week may not be comfortable with a key. I don't know theory so its fun to learn the different changes.

 

[Jimmy Bones]

My bass is perpetually tuned DADG. I get confused trying to play standard nowadays.

 

[dancrocker]

Hey man...some of us just don't like 5's...medical condition or not..Sure a thumb rest is nice and so is the occasional bomb but Its all about personal preference

Anyways...I'm not following your issue Dan.. Are you just learning the bass and not comfortable with different octaves? What is it your being asked to do bass wise? I can't see a full out rock/praise show in a catholic church so are these hymns? Are the songs written in a specific key for vocal consideration? I run into this a lot as the singers on that week may not be comfortable with a key. I don't know theory so its fun to learn the different changes.

I'm fine with playing some of the lower notes an octave up. I just wasn't sure how it would sound if I played them that way. Actually, I messed around last night with one of the songs and I think I know how to play it without detuning. My first rehearsal is this coming monday so I will find out then really which key(s) they want to play these songs in and why. I'm sure the "real" musicians in the group can help me as well. BTW, it's a full band playing christian rock songs from people like Matt Maher, John Angotti, etc...

 

[MJKay92]

I'll tell ya, IME you can get away with playing C# up an octave, rather than down. I have never had to play lower than D, and I gig a lot.

Agreed. I play in a band who do covers of hard/alternative rock artists, such as Paramore and Lostprophets. I actually learned Paramore - Misery Business and Lostprophets - Last Train Home in standard EADG tuning, and played many of the notes an octave higher at practices without realising for several weeks. Nobody else noticed either. It was only after I decided to search for tabs that I realised both were written in Drop D. Just play the notes an octave higher and if nobody comments, you can assume they're happy.

 

[warnergt]

This is interesting; I wasn't even aware these things were available. How well do they work? Are there any issues with being out of tune when switching back and forth?

And, a cheap bass is similar money, but I like my p-bass and would rather not cart around two instruments (my car is a little small for that).

Dan

The Drop-D tuners work great. They are super easy to install and
super easy to use. And they come in various styles so you can get an
exact match (in terms of look) with your other tuners. If you've got a
P-bass, they definitely have a matching tuner.

I got mine on ebay for $62.00 (plus shipping).

One other point. I'm kind of a purist when it comes to my equipment --
especially quality instruments like a P bass. Some guys like changing
pickups and bridges and other stuff; I like to keep it original.
However, this Drop-D tuner installs with a single nut and the installation
is completely reversible in a matter of minutes. Just hang on to your
old tuner and you can replace it any time if you ever want to want to
restore your bass to original (or keep the tuner for your next P bass).

 

[HogieWan]

Also - you're playing in church. Most people won't notice if you hit the wrong note, much less if you play the right note up an octave. It doesn't matter that much.

Someone on TB has a Wooten quote as a sig that says something like 'don't lose the groove while searching for the right note'.

 

[T40Chump]

Get a five string and adapt. Humans tend to be good at adaptation when they want to. Don't worry, your hands will thank you for it later. Fivers aren't that difficult to adjust to anyway. Just work past that mental block that says your hands are too small. It's all bunk. Google Abraham Laboriel. He's a small handed SIX string player.

Bo

 

[schismpunk]

Also - you're playing in church. Most people won't notice if you hit the wrong note, much less if you play the right note up an octave. It doesn't matter that much.

Growing up in a Catholic family, in my experience most Catholics can't clap in time, let alone realize the bass player playing the wrong note. You've got the easiest gig in the world, Dan