A common (pointless) theme here

[Fat Steve]

So what is "crap music"? Anything I personally don't care for? Who is the arbiter of what is good?

I actually find it kind of arrogant or snobbish to judge and talk like there is some absolute standard as to what is good or bad; how about just letting others like their kind of music and you move on to listening to what you like?

It has to do with ones own confidence and self esteem. The lower one thinks of themselves, the more they must prop themselves up above the "regular people", or as I hear them referred to on this forum quite regularly "the lowest common denominator" (often with barely held contempt as they type it). It has nothing to do with entertainment on a personal level, but rather some sort of misguided notion that a persons social status or even their worth is judged by the music they listen to, the art they like, the shows they watch, the movies they see or what sports they are a fan of (or simply the fact that they enjoy sports in the first place). I've even had people judge me and look down on me for reading books they deemed beneath them. They couldn't be happy to see someone reading a book, they had to make a goddamned moral judgement because they didn't like the book I was reading. El Oh El.

Some people are miserable self hating folks, and there's just no fixing that. Those are the people that will run their mouths and talk smack about stuff they don't like and the people that like that stuff. Don't mind them. It's because of these people that the sun shines so bright, that the grass is so green, that the water is so refreshing. The reason being that without their misery, joy wouldn't mean so much. These people personify yin and yang for the rest of us.

In conclusion:

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Classical Music was the POP music of the Renaissance.

not really true : what we call classical music was ( and still is ) regarded as "musique savante" ( I really don't know how to translate that ) and what it means is : a music that need knowledge to be written and performed. At the same time there were folk musician that sang dumb stuff in a two part harmony or something similar.

so people with money listened to "classical music" while everyone else had more basic music that still used some technic known at the time but style ... the lyrics was quite dumb most of the time.

Also obviously few of those dumb songs never stood the test of time because they couldn't write music and well 90% never survived while those with knowledge and people with money did write the music on paper.

 

[dhsierra1]

"musique savante" ( I really don't know how to translate that )

"scholarly music" is my best shot

+1 on your post, though the folk music you describe was the well spring for many of the themes in "Musique savante", esp in the Romantic era when the likes of Bartok were essentially ethnomusicologists.

 

[Sethakamoe]

Well there are different time periods in music history it goes. Medieval , renaissance ,baroque ,classical ,romantic , modern What people now a days call classical music is for the most baroque , classical , romantic, and also neoclassical witch is. New classical

 

[Kmonk]

Almost invariably in any discussion here about music or bands someone will invoke the obligatory "there's not good music any more...so much crap like Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber out there now....yada yada yada..."

Get this: there has ALWAYS BEEN pop crap dominating the radio waves. Stop comparing AOR and niche genres to pop radio. They aren't the same thing. They've never been the same thing. They're not even vaguely related to each other. All your fave classic rock and blues bands were never chart-toppers...your Zeppelin got drowned out by Sean Cassidy and The Captain And Tonille. The Number One spot in Mellowinman's favorite year 1974 was held by Barbera Streisand, followed by "Seasons in The Sun" and "The Streak". The Steve Miller band was waaaaaay down at # 40. Helen Reddy, Paul Anka and John Denver CRUSHED Golden Earring and Bachman-Turner Overdrive.

You're not hearing 'good' music because "it's gone"; it's because you're not looking for it. It was always found in the past by deejays who could spin on their whim and expose the unexposed; now you have to use internet radio, college stations and YouTube channels for the same thing. If you turn on pop radio and are offended by the material being played it's because YOU ARE NOT THE TARGET DEMOGRAPHIC.

So save your keyboards and your fingers by avoiding the "Rebecca Black has destroyed rock and roll!!" syndrome...it just tells everyone that you don't know how radio works or what it's for. She writes POP. So does Beiber. And Cyrus. And Gaga. And LMFAO. It's POP. It's not supposed to be- or compete with- Grandpa's Greatest Hits.

Your favorite music didn't disappear because of them...it disappeared either because you stopped looking for it or because nobody thinks your style is good any more. Gird your loins and walk into the sunlight, Luddites! Music evolves. We can't keep doing the same thing with the same sounds for decades on end.

I agree with some of what you said but the truth is that there is much less good quality music being made than in the past. It is over simplified and relies on things like Autotune. Artists such as Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Who, Aerosmith and many others are still relevant and have been for 40 to 50 years. I sincerely doubt that the artists you mentioned will be as relevant 40 years from now.

 

[bass12]

not really true : what we call classical music was ( and still is ) regarded as "musique savante" ( I really don't know how to translate that ) and what it means is : a music that need knowledge to be written and performed. At the same time there were folk musician that sang dumb stuff in a two part harmony or something similar.

so people with money listened to "classical music" while everyone else had more basic music that still used some technic known at the time but style ... the lyrics was quite dumb most of the time.

Also obviously few of those dumb songs never stood the test of time because they couldn't write music and well 90% never survived while those with knowledge and people with money did write the music on paper.

There was no "pop" before the 20th century (if you subscribe to the idea that pop and popular music was dependent partially on forms of mass distribution). Your separation of music into the distinct categories of "musique savante" and folk is mostly justified, but consider the form of "opera buffa" which, while directed more at the "common" people, would not be considered "folk" music. As for the lyrics in folk music - there was plenty of variety and I would hesitate to classify the majority of it as "dumb". In fact, quite a lot of it was rather clever. The music, too, was often more complex rhythmically than much of what was found in the world of "musique savante".

 

[Batman!]

I'll preface this by saying that I don't have any hard data to back this up, but my hypothesis is that popular music has declined with the increasing buying power of certain demographics. Pre-teens, teens, tweens, etc. had more relative buying power in 2012 compared to 1985, thus the charts reflect more music targeted at that demographic. That music tends to be inane crap bemoaned by those of us beyond those years.

 

[bass12]

I'll preface this by saying that I don't have any hard data to back this up, but my hypothesis is that popular music has declined with the increasing buying power of certain demographics. Pre-teens, teens, tweens, etc. had more relative buying power in 2012 compared to 1985, thus the charts reflect more music targeted at that demographic. That music tends to be inane crap bemoaned by those of us beyond those years.

That's a good point.

 

[avvie]

I sincerely doubt that the artists you mentioned will be as relevant 40 years from now.

Well of course they won't....that's the point of this thread! They're not supposed to be relevant and should not be compared in any way with the artists that you mentioned.

 

[GIBrat51]

So what is "crap music"? Anything I personally don't care for? Who is the arbiter of what is good?

No; "Crap Music" is anything I don't care for. And, since you asked, I am the arbiter of what is good.

As far as my ears are concerned, of course. I would never presume to tell people what to listen to (or read, or eat, or think, or anything else), and have no respect for people who do. It's none of my business. I will tell you what I think about your music - if you ask me; since I'm old and crochety, though, you might not like the answer. Otherwise, I'll listen to mine; you listen to yours. (Still think music went down hill after Buddy Holly died, though....) And get off my lawn!

 

[Chromer]

Maybe. But I love a lot of the kinds of productions that came out of the 70s, 80s and part of the 90s and those types of productions are very difficult to come by today because the budgets required to make such records, with a few limited exceptions, simply don't exist anymore.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Unless you're hiring in string sections, orchestras or big choirs, there is simply no need to book a room at Abbey Road for a full year to make a giant-sounding album. I really do believe that the majority of the tracking and overdubs really can be done by a few great players sitting around a laptop in a nice sounding room with some nice instruments & amps and a decent collection of mics, preamps and converters. Well, provided someone with good ears and a clear vision of the end product is calling the shots.

 

[bass12]

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. Unless you're hiring in string sections, orchestras or big choirs, there is simply no need to book a room at Abbey Road for a full year to make a giant-sounding album. I really do believe that the majority of the tracking and overdubs really can be done by a few great players sitting around a laptop in a nice sounding room with some nice instruments & amps and a decent collection of mics, preamps and converters. Well, provided someone with good ears and a clear vision of the end product is calling the shots.

Hiring arrangers, decent songwriters (when needed), good producers and, yes, string and horn sections - plus the necessary players. Sure, lots can be done for considerably cheaper these days but when was the last time you heard an album like The Lexicon Of Love?

 

[FilterFunk]

All I know is this: If I wanted to hear Led Zeppelin, Stevie Wonder, Aerosmith, Kool & the Gang, The Stones, Parliament, Elton John, James Brown, Thin Lizzy, the Isley Brothers, Billy Joel, the Ohio Players, Boston, Cameo, the Eagles, Billy Preston, Peter Frampton, Curtis Mayfield, the Who, Earth, Wind & Fire, Chicago, Tower of Power, etc. back in the day, all I had to do was turn on a radio. I didn't have to look for any of it. Yes, there was a boatload of cheesy crap as well, but I have yet to come across any new music lover that "knows where to look" who can match this partial list of great bands and artists, even after thoroughly searching the internet.

 

[bass12]

All I know is this: If I wanted to hear Led Zeppelin, Stevie Wonder, Aerosmith, Kool & the Gang, The Stones, Parliament, Elton John, James Brown, Thin Lizzy, the Isley Brothers, Billy Joel, the Ohio Players, Boston, Cameo, the Eagles, Billy Preston, Peter Frampton, Curtis Mayfield, the Who, Earth, Wind & Fire, Chicago, Tower of Power, etc. back in the day, all I had to do was turn on a radio. I didn't have to look for any of it. Yes, there was a boatload of cheesy crap as well, but I have yet to come across any new music lover that "knows where to look" who can match this partial list of great bands and artists, even after thoroughly searching the internet.

Even the "crap" of yesteryear tended to possess elements requiring arranging skill (be it in the horns, the strings, the rhythm section). I hear very little of such elements in todays top 40 pop. Playing in a corporate/wedding band I have to play top 40 songs from the 60s up until now and the current stuff can't hold a candle to the old stuff in terms of the writing and arranging. Not even close.

 

[mellowinman]

Look, there's something you're forgetting here. As we get older, we get grouchy, and try to hang onto something we are familiar with in a rapidly changing, confusing world. And we'd have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for you kids. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

 

[BawanaRik]

I know a few people who only like music from the summer before they had to grow up and become responsible for kids, mortgages and jobs they hate. That's cool, I understand that, music is a time machine like no other.

I wonder how many kids hear their gran parents listening to White Rabbit or She Was Like A Bearded Rainbow and wonder what all is going on.

 

[bluesblaster]

We have two of those. One seems to have stopped buying new records in 1977, and the other just keeps telling me I'm a sinner and that I should send them money. I'll stick to the podcasts...

Thats unfortunate, glad I dont live in your neighborhood

 

[radioface]

I know most of the new pop music is a singer and a computer operator but, damn there are some great bass lines in some of these songs.

 

[GIBrat51]

I wonder how many kids hear their gran parents listening to White Rabbit or She Was Like A Bearded Rainbow and wonder what all is going on.

How about this? In the early 70's, I was stationed close enough to my parent's house to go home every weekend, and had my huge stereo system set up in the basement, 'cause there wasn't room for it in the barracks (had a roomie, and his was there first).
Got to my folks' house late one Friday afternoon; went in, and felt the whole floor vibrating like crazy. Aha, I thought; that's my kid brother messin' with my stereo - and after I threatened to destroy him if he did, too.
Fought my way down through the decibels pouring up the stairs; rounded the corner, and found - my father! Mr. Retired E-9, Crewcut, "I think light opera is the best music" Straight Arrow, is rockin' out hard in the middle of the room, jammin' to CCR's "Run Through the Jungle" on his Air Guitar! And, he was pretty good at it, too. "These guys are great!" he shouted when he finally noticed me; "Got any more of their records?" I was too stunned to do anything but nod. What I thought I knew about my parents took a serious hit that day.

 

[Sethakamoe]

I am so glad there are old people on talk as sand that is a awesome story my friend