Double Bass A difficult topic...

[Andy Mopley]

‘I was sexually harassed at rehearsal’ – a double bassist shares her story - Classic FM

Not sure how widespread it is, but clearly exists out there, as it does everywhere else, sadly..

 

[damonsmith]

I just heard from two female musicians that I play with that they dealt with it recently. Lauren is fantastic. It is important that she spoke out about it, and even better that she keeps pushing her work forward. She is setting an important example in the world. I've learned so much from her.

 

[Don Hergert]

Hmmm, "Private Video" reports video is unavailable even after signing in.

 

[damonsmith]

It happened a few years ago. I could imagine her trying to put i behind her.

 

[Don Hergert]

Yes, I was wondering the same...

Or, possibly that she's receiving backlash in one way or another for having it easily available for people to read about. Wrongly so, but publicly outing sexual harassment details can become a career-ending move.

 

[damonsmith]

I don't know her personally. My guess is it was up long enough to be effective and her channel is about her work as a bass player and I can imagine her wanting to present that on its own.
In that spirit, here is a video of her ripping through Bach:

She is probably my favorite for Bach on bass!

 

[TroyK]

Wonderful player.

 

[Ed S]

It seems that sexual harassment can mean quite a wide range of different things to different people. And it is a curious offense in that it is determined almost entirely upon the perception of the victim, with no consideration of the perpetrator's intent, and no comparison to a "reasonable person" standard.

No woman should be treated in a manner that makes her feel uncomfortable based on her gender, and should not be treated differently based on her gender. But simply using the words "sexual harassment" does not explain whether the offensive behavior was an off color joke or physical assault - or anything else along the continuum of possible harassment. And I have encountered more than one instance in which someone claimed they were harassed or discriminated against for an inappropriate factor, when my impression is that their treatment reflected their job performance.

Lauren Pierce has always seemed very reasonable and intelligent in everything I have seen of her, so I tend to give her considerable benefit of the doubt. And, as a middle class white male, my opinion really oughtn't matter. But in my mind, without at least some minimal details, it is challenging to even meaningfully get my mind around stories like this.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

It is a difficult topic in deed and sexual harassment is terrible thing in any field. In this age however, there are so many claims that you wonder if they're all true. I'm not calling anybody a liar.

 

[TroyK]

It is a difficult topic in deed and sexual harassment is terrible thing in any field. In this age however, there are so many claims that you wonder if they're all true. I'm not calling anybody a liar.

Then why bring it up? Do you have a specific reason to doubt Ms. Pierce?

This is not a broad discussion on the state of the world or the perils of being male. It is a specific news story about a specific professional bassist who is being given respect and benefit of the doubt by doubebassists.

 

[Ed S]

...

This is not a broad discussion on the state of the world or the perils of being male. It is a specific news story about a specific professional bassist who is being given respect and benefit of the doubt by doubebassists.

Sure. But aren't we entirely lacking in specifics as to the nature specific harassment?

And, while I agree than NO sexual harassment is acceptable, some of what I have heard described as sexual harassment impresses me as worse than others. I empathize with a woman who feels she ought not remain quiet about what she perceives as harassment. But it also is a tad problematic to make such an accusation, without providing some minimal details. Did she lose a position to a less qualified man? See a naked pinup backstage? Get patted on the butt? Pressured for sex? IMO, none of these are excusable, but not all are equal.

Lacking ANY details, the story creates the mindset that anyone associated with any US orchestra she has worked with as a freelancer is a potential rapist. In a minor respect, something about such unspecific allegations impresses me as somewhat irresponsible.

 

[Katoosie]

How can one be subjected to this kind of extortion if there are no photos and videos?

Deepfakes and AI has centered the chat.
Spin it long enough across the web and there you go, nonsense that is not based in reality at all that looks real.

Probably not the case for a random bass player, but the possibilities are there. The tech exists and its just one possibility out of a few, very creative yet malicious things out there.

Yet another reason to never be in any band and such. I'm only saying it half-jokingly

 

[TroyK]

The video isn't available, so I can't know what details she did or didn't provide, but this is what the article says:

"In the video (below), she opens up about a period of sexual harassment she went through while working as a freelancer in a US orchestra. After speaking about her specific experience she explains that she didn't speak up at the time because she feared she might not be invited back to work with the ensemble.

In the video – below – she says she hopes her frank discussion of her own experience might help other musicians who are dealing with harassment at work, or who may have dealt with similar situations in the past."

It is difficult for victims of sexual crimes and harassment to come forward and talk about their experience. They are often (as in this case in a forum of peers and admirers) accused of lying about it. To suggest that unless they can "prove it" they should keep their mouths shut is a powerful tool that works to the advantage of the abusers. IF she were to name names, she would be expected to back up her claims and there is a good chance that they would be litigated either from criminal offenses or liable/slander.

The quoted article offered an explanation for her motives for speaking up in whatever detail she did and I have no reason to doubt them. I don't see what else she has to gain from making this up, but she does stand to lose some things professionally. Like any news story, we don't know the whole thing. I think it's reasonable for anyone to think and feel however they do based on the available information, but I don't support ever suggesting that someone who comes forward is lying without specific reason to believe so, especially a professional in a professional context.

 

[C Stone]

She should publish the complaint/police report, was one made? Perhaps it was an overweight balding fellow that asked her out it or told an off color joke. I have seen this in the office when the “good looking” fellow shows interest to someone it was nary a problem when a “not so good looking” straight to Human Resources. We need more info as harassment goes to intent and not specifically how the complainant “feels”.

That being said “no one” should be treated in a manner that makes them feel uncomfortable after that clarification

 

[Ed S]

We need more info as harassment goes to intent and not specifically how the complainant “feels”.

Pretty sure you have it exactly backwards there. In a work situation I may intend nothing by telling a joke I find amusing and innocuous, but if a listener feels offended by hearing it, it is harassment.

 

[TroyK]

"...a period of sexual harassment she went through while working..."


Does not sound like an off-color joke or someone asking her out and her declining. You guys are projecting. We don't know what happened, but unless you have some very specific reason to doubt this particular professional classical doublebassist's story, I think the classy play is not to give her un-named harasser the benefit of the doubt because you feel that sometimes...some women...somewhere...might have...

I might go so far as to suggest that if you're not a doublebassist this might not be a great conversation for you to take the contrarian devil's advocate on. We're not taking about drunks in a bar band. We're talking about a professional in a field that requires decades of formal training and development and in which there are relatively few employers, all of whom are companies who are legally and otherwise required to provide a harassment free workplace.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Then why bring it up? Do you have a specific reason to doubt Ms. Pierce?

That was a general comment if you pay attention, it was not about her specifically. And I didn't bring up the topic.

 

[mapleglo]

I've been very lucky playing in weekend warrior bands over the years. Fairly lucky in the work environment. Fairly lucky overall. A couple of incidents, nothing I'd want to repeat here. But yeah, lucky overall.

 

[Wasnex]

How can one be subjected to this kind of extortion if there are no photos and videos?

If it's a condition of employment or advancement. Word of mouth can also inflict reputational harm.

 

[C Stone]

Pretty sure you have it exactly backwards there. In a work situation I may intend nothing by telling a joke I find amusing and innocuous, but if a listener feels offended by hearing it, it is harassment.

Not true at all, you are confused. If someone says they are offended and you continue to subject that person (who very well maybe thin skinned) to those type of as you stated “amusing and innocuous” one would not only be jerk not to respect that particular persons sensibilities keeping in mind someone's idea of innocuous may certainly differ from someone else’s POV that could certainly be construed as workplace harassment and is (IMO) who is the arbitrator of whether it was, State/Fed law and/or company policy. Take care.