I'm in this camp- preferably with the second optionJust fire him. If he messes with you or gets violent, call the cops or beat the hell out of him.
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A Hypothetical Question: Getting Rid of a Member
- Thread starter Burlington
- Start date
Hmmm--OP, this does not sound hypothetical to me at all. Right off the bat you say "...this guy's maturity level." That is a slipped reference to a real guy.
But, on the bright side, always some pretty good advice for true or HYPOTHETICAL situations.
Just my take...
But, on the bright side, always some pretty good advice for true or HYPOTHETICAL situations.
Just my take...
After all that youve said I get the feeling you're rather mature and have taken a good look at the situation from all angles.
With that said, I would say do one of two things.....
Kick him in private with just one of you.... draw straws if you must to see who has to do the dirty work.
Option B is what I think would be best for you.... You have said that he has passwords etc... you have also said that you arent fond of the band name anyways... just break up and reform without him.
But.... change those passwords regardless... if he's the type to badmouth you he'd surely be the type to use your own FB and Myspace to do it.
With that said, I would say do one of two things.....
Kick him in private with just one of you.... draw straws if you must to see who has to do the dirty work.
Option B is what I think would be best for you.... You have said that he has passwords etc... you have also said that you arent fond of the band name anyways... just break up and reform without him.
But.... change those passwords regardless... if he's the type to badmouth you he'd surely be the type to use your own FB and Myspace to do it.
We are leaning towards the reform option.... I wouldn't want to be in his shoes though honestly. But, I wouldn't have his attitude either.
Everything in this world comes down to two things.....love or fear.
If you are acting out of fear then you may want to step away from it and see it from a new perspective.
If you are acting out of fear then you may want to step away from it and see it from a new perspective.
Sup guys, I'm the keyboard player who works with Burlington.
The major issue Burlington is facing is the issue that every other musician in the band is doing what the band mutually wants. The guitarists and myself are up for hours messing with tabs and tweaking them until we believe that we can't make it sound better. Sometimes a guitar player will change a certain part I play or Burlington will change his parts based on what I do, but the ultimate goal is we try to make ourselves sound as awesome as we can, and hopefully someone else will like hearing it as much as we like playing it.
The singer in question believes that during the time when he was frying his brain with E and **** in high school, he wrote a bunch of awesome lyrics. In reality, he wrote a bunch of stuff with a similar underlying theme that makes no sense. However, when approached with criticism and suggestions on what to change and what to keep, he disregards the advice and does the exact opposite. His one upside is that as far as screamers go, he's definitely on the better side of how that sounds, but it's all he can do, literally. The guy has no understanding of any form of musical theory, and doesn't seem to care about the length of a quarter-note versus a sixteenth, so even his word placement needs work.
When one of the members of the band rewrote the lyrics to a song we haven't even produced yet, with a theme to the song and lyrical progression that makes sense (lol, it's about burning witches), coupled with word placement that actually fits what everyone else is playing, instead of saying "that is a good idea, and it sounds better than what I was already doing." like the rest of the band, he just got mad.
Unfortunately, from where Burlington (and the rest of the band) is, it looks like it will come to a point of conflict over it, and he is looking for options that we haven't considered. The only thing stopping us from dropping this guy is the fact that we can't find anyone better who can fit our music. As awesome as some random guy's "brees" are, they have no place in our songs. So unfortunately, we seem to have come to a point of impasse, where we either have a singer who sucks to work with, or no singer at all. I can't speak for the rest of the band, but the instrumental parts that we play are too complex (at least for me) to attempt singing and playing at the same time.
My stance on the matter has already been spoken, but I'm the most junior guy there. The only thing going for me is that I'm a ******-strength wall of really tall guy with really long arms who used to teach people how to perform the basic skills found in the UFC with body armor on, and I'm good with a wrench. I think we should just tell him to use the lyrics and word placement provided, and if he doesn't like it, ****ing deal with it or get out. There's nothing this person could do that can't be dealt with, and should he do something completely drastic, one of the band members even has a shotgun. I know if I was about to leave the band, I wouldn't be ****ing with anything anywhere near that house.
tl;dr version: Singer has the junior stages of Axl Syndrome and can't be reasoned with and we want more ideas than the solutions we came up with, even though we figure there probably aren't any.
The major issue Burlington is facing is the issue that every other musician in the band is doing what the band mutually wants. The guitarists and myself are up for hours messing with tabs and tweaking them until we believe that we can't make it sound better. Sometimes a guitar player will change a certain part I play or Burlington will change his parts based on what I do, but the ultimate goal is we try to make ourselves sound as awesome as we can, and hopefully someone else will like hearing it as much as we like playing it.
The singer in question believes that during the time when he was frying his brain with E and **** in high school, he wrote a bunch of awesome lyrics. In reality, he wrote a bunch of stuff with a similar underlying theme that makes no sense. However, when approached with criticism and suggestions on what to change and what to keep, he disregards the advice and does the exact opposite. His one upside is that as far as screamers go, he's definitely on the better side of how that sounds, but it's all he can do, literally. The guy has no understanding of any form of musical theory, and doesn't seem to care about the length of a quarter-note versus a sixteenth, so even his word placement needs work.
When one of the members of the band rewrote the lyrics to a song we haven't even produced yet, with a theme to the song and lyrical progression that makes sense (lol, it's about burning witches), coupled with word placement that actually fits what everyone else is playing, instead of saying "that is a good idea, and it sounds better than what I was already doing." like the rest of the band, he just got mad.
Unfortunately, from where Burlington (and the rest of the band) is, it looks like it will come to a point of conflict over it, and he is looking for options that we haven't considered. The only thing stopping us from dropping this guy is the fact that we can't find anyone better who can fit our music. As awesome as some random guy's "brees" are, they have no place in our songs. So unfortunately, we seem to have come to a point of impasse, where we either have a singer who sucks to work with, or no singer at all. I can't speak for the rest of the band, but the instrumental parts that we play are too complex (at least for me) to attempt singing and playing at the same time.
My stance on the matter has already been spoken, but I'm the most junior guy there. The only thing going for me is that I'm a ******-strength wall of really tall guy with really long arms who used to teach people how to perform the basic skills found in the UFC with body armor on, and I'm good with a wrench. I think we should just tell him to use the lyrics and word placement provided, and if he doesn't like it, ****ing deal with it or get out. There's nothing this person could do that can't be dealt with, and should he do something completely drastic, one of the band members even has a shotgun. I know if I was about to leave the band, I wouldn't be ****ing with anything anywhere near that house.
tl;dr version: Singer has the junior stages of Axl Syndrome and can't be reasoned with and we want more ideas than the solutions we came up with, even though we figure there probably aren't any.
I guess I'd look at it this way...... If this person is being counterproductive, and making the project less enjoyable for any or all of the other members, what good is he doing you? Don't wait until you end up so unhappy with him or the situation that you then act out of anger. Nip it in the bud now, before you really start to harbor ill feelings or resentment.
Music is supposed to be enjoyable. Why let someone ruin it that isn't working towards the common goal?
Plus you mentioned some form of substance use by him in the past..... If he's still doing that kind of thing, that would be the end of it for me. Don't need to waste time with that BS.
There are other singers out there.....
Music is supposed to be enjoyable. Why let someone ruin it that isn't working towards the common goal?
Plus you mentioned some form of substance use by him in the past..... If he's still doing that kind of thing, that would be the end of it for me. Don't need to waste time with that BS.
There are other singers out there.....
Well, we're still just talking about it. Not acting on anything yet. But I will update if anything happens.
Tell him straight up that you all have decided to abandon this project and reform with a different band name and that you all will be seeking a different type of vocalist to front the new group.
Say that you think he's really great at what he does, but you want someone who is less screamo and who writes with a different lyrical style.
He can take it however he wants, probably the worst possible way. Just be on your toes for the next few weeks regarding vandalism concerns. Don't worry about him badmouthing you. It will do him no favors as the only people who will listen to that crap seriously are his die hard friends anyway... if he has any.
Say that you think he's really great at what he does, but you want someone who is less screamo and who writes with a different lyrical style.
He can take it however he wants, probably the worst possible way. Just be on your toes for the next few weeks regarding vandalism concerns. Don't worry about him badmouthing you. It will do him no favors as the only people who will listen to that crap seriously are his die hard friends anyway... if he has any.
All joking aside, it sounds like an easy decision( but not a pleasant one). You and the other members care about your band, you want it to be as good as possible, period. This guy is holding you back, not a team player, it will not get better with time. Nobody is so great that they can get away with being an ***hole, just ask David Lee Roth. There is enough to worry about without the extra drama this guy brings.
OK now I'm confused. I thought the question was whether you should go through a break-up-and-re-form or just fire the guy straight up. Now what I'm hearing is "as bad as he is, we can't find anyone else who fits the band's music," which sounds like you don't know whether to lose him or not.
If he's all that fits the band's music, the band's music must really suck. It sounds like you work pretty hard at it, so let's assume it doesn't suck. If it doesn't, then there has got to be somebody else out there who can do a better job than this train wreck. You just need to be more creative and patient about finding that someone.
Anyway, the split-and-re-form scenario reeks of passive-aggressiveness and is effectively letting someone else's psychosis hold you hostage, making you jump through stupid and unnecessary hoops just to avoid a confrontation. I'm sure he probably knows the people you know and goes to the bars you go to or whatever. He'll know you've reformed. So alll you're doing is postponing whatever hijinks he's liable to. If he's going to badmouth the band without him, he'll do it under the band's new name too. If he's going to go nuts on your gear, he'll do it then too. You just need to conduct yourselves, and play, in a way that demonstrates that whatever bull he wants to say about you is false and that you're a better band without him, and if he tries to do anything physical, call 911 and let him cool off in jail. Period.
If he's all that fits the band's music, the band's music must really suck. It sounds like you work pretty hard at it, so let's assume it doesn't suck. If it doesn't, then there has got to be somebody else out there who can do a better job than this train wreck. You just need to be more creative and patient about finding that someone.
Anyway, the split-and-re-form scenario reeks of passive-aggressiveness and is effectively letting someone else's psychosis hold you hostage, making you jump through stupid and unnecessary hoops just to avoid a confrontation. I'm sure he probably knows the people you know and goes to the bars you go to or whatever. He'll know you've reformed. So alll you're doing is postponing whatever hijinks he's liable to. If he's going to badmouth the band without him, he'll do it under the band's new name too. If he's going to go nuts on your gear, he'll do it then too. You just need to conduct yourselves, and play, in a way that demonstrates that whatever bull he wants to say about you is false and that you're a better band without him, and if he tries to do anything physical, call 911 and let him cool off in jail. Period.
We just want him out by any means possible and as easy as possible.
As for our music sucking, the only reason it would would be because of his crappy lyrics. During a radio interview we were asked what one particular song meant. He just mumbled and said "uhhh" for about a minute. So embarrassing.
As for him knowing we have reformed, ya he'll find out eventually. But none of us are friends of his friends nor do we hang out at bars much unless we are playing there that night.
Thanks for the tips guys, keep them coming
If you knew that your body had a cancer growing inside it, would you ignore it & hope it gets better on its own or would you get it cut out of you ASAP?
Tell him your vision doesn't match his, he'd be better off without you, you're holding him back, etc. & go your separate ways.
If you're still asking the same questions 24 hours from now, the cancer will only be that much bigger.
Tell him your vision doesn't match his, he'd be better off without you, you're holding him back, etc. & go your separate ways.
If you're still asking the same questions 24 hours from now, the cancer will only be that much bigger.
i'm guessing you have not thought out the consequences of NOT booting the guy now.....if it's going to hurt now,imagine how much fun it will be later...fix the my space,get your ducks in a row and put
'im through the uprights.....let him know he is out,you are going in a different direction,wish him well and offer only cursory explanation s if asked,and that it is a unanimous decision..... avoid rubbing his nose in the details....no sense getting dragged into a big explanation or argument
if you think you'll need restraining orders or that sort of thing,dig out the phone numbers now and make a few inquiries into the process,without telling anyone other than the remaining band mates...start writing your cease and desist letters so they're ready if you need them.......when you have your goodbye talk with him,see how he reacts,and if it's at all threatening lay down what you intend to do the second he steps out of line,and be prepared to follow up,the very next day,no waiting,waffling,apologizing,etc.....
Kick the guy out, learn to sing through your parts (even if they are complex). No more annoying guy to deal, you guys get better as musicians and learn the sing through hard music, and less people to split the bill. Everyone wins!
Question. What is the band name that you so despise?
WARNING: BAD ADVICE. (What? Everyone took this so seriously!)
Also. Have some fun with this. Mess with him a bit. All of you gang up on him and start accusing him of stealing from the band. Have everyone except for the new bandleader walk out - pissed - and then tell him: "Nah, we were just effin with ya. You're fired, by the way." And then if he tries to badmouth you guys, just start letting his dirty secrets out in the open. Or make some up. If he busts stuff, get the police involved.
WARNING: BAD ADVICE. (What? Everyone took this so seriously!)
Also. Have some fun with this. Mess with him a bit. All of you gang up on him and start accusing him of stealing from the band. Have everyone except for the new bandleader walk out - pissed - and then tell him: "Nah, we were just effin with ya. You're fired, by the way." And then if he tries to badmouth you guys, just start letting his dirty secrets out in the open. Or make some up. If he busts stuff, get the police involved.
Whether you re-form under a new name or not, the current situation is clearly unpleasant for all of you and therefore, unsustainable. As for your keyboardist's comment about no other singer fitting with your band, that's something you guys will have to be open-minded about. You may not find someone who sings/screams exactly like he does. Whoever you do find will likely change the sound of the band somewhat because their voice and style will be a little different. Be open to that. The new singer may even improve your overall sound, bring out some new elements in the band. You never know until you try out some new people.
We recently made a rather painful decision to replace our drummer. Not because we didn't get on with him (he's a great guy), but because his skill level just isn't where we need it to be. We knew, as soon as we decided, that we were potentially looking at a couple of months of down time while we find a replacement. But what would have been the alternative? Continuing on with a drummer we knew wasn't right for us? Again, not a sustainable situation. And the longer we left it, the more painful it would have become for everyone involved.
The suggestion of selecting one or two of you to talk to the guy is a good one, IMO. If you all confront him at once, he will likely feel overwhelmed and react badly. No guarantee he'll react well in a private conversation, of course, but if those involved can remain calm, it will help. You have some well-founded reasons why it's not working. Change your online passwords, let him know why you have made this decision, let your keyboardist demonstrate why having long arms is beneficial in certain situations, and move on to a new lineup. Best of luck with it and do let us know how it goes.
We recently made a rather painful decision to replace our drummer. Not because we didn't get on with him (he's a great guy), but because his skill level just isn't where we need it to be. We knew, as soon as we decided, that we were potentially looking at a couple of months of down time while we find a replacement. But what would have been the alternative? Continuing on with a drummer we knew wasn't right for us? Again, not a sustainable situation. And the longer we left it, the more painful it would have become for everyone involved.
The suggestion of selecting one or two of you to talk to the guy is a good one, IMO. If you all confront him at once, he will likely feel overwhelmed and react badly. No guarantee he'll react well in a private conversation, of course, but if those involved can remain calm, it will help. You have some well-founded reasons why it's not working. Change your online passwords, let him know why you have made this decision, let your keyboardist demonstrate why having long arms is beneficial in certain situations, and move on to a new lineup. Best of luck with it and do let us know how it goes.
