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A little different spin on finding a "Plug & Play" live rig

Porksicle

Porksicle

May 16, 2008
83
1
48
Taylor, MI
#1
I'm looking to invest in a new live rig, but before I go looking for suggestions, there's one pretty strong feature that I'm looking for:

I don't want this amp to define my sound, and I don't want to sound like "the amp".

So with that in mind, here's a couple other things:


1) Plug and Play

First and foremost, I do not need another knob-monster that changes colors at the blink of an eye. I need something that's fairly consistant time and time again, and while it's okay if it has options, I don't want to always have to figure out what they do.


2) Takes on the Nature of the Instrument

I play a pretty defined variety of basses:

-- Fender Jazz, Rosewood, w/ SD QP's
-- Fender Precision, Maple, w/ stock split-P
-- Musicman Sterling, Rosewood, Single H
-- Ibanez BTB405, Rosewood, stock Ibanez PU's (not the psuedo-Barts on the new ones)
-- Ibanez ATK305, Maple, stock PU.

I'd like a rig where these basses, my compressor, along with a few light, well placed effects, will define my sound - not the amp itself. I want the amp to project what's going on with the instrument and the player.


3) Range

Because I have a few different areas "in the mix" that I play in, I need something that's full range, but not muddy. Something that has the ability to leap out at any time, regardless of where I'm focused in the bandwidth.


4) More is More

I play quite a few medium-sized venues, not always with good sound systems, and I really need something that can project and be "there" when it needs to be. And this includes cabinet options as well. Bigger is just fine with me.


That's the task ahead of me - the only other rules are:
- Price isn't an issue
- I'm in Detroit, in the US
- I'd really like to be able to play one (in a store, etc.) before buying it, so something by, say Carvin who is 3,000 miles away, might be okay, but not as okay as something that might be in the GC down the street.


your suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks folks!
 
#2
Every rig has at least a somewhat inherent tone. Many rigs are called 'flat' here on TB, but they all sound different. 'Flat' and 'transparent', in some ways, seem to be used when a TBer 'likes' the sound of a rig.

That being said, there are some nice heads and cabs that seem to provide, if not true transparent tone, at least a clean solid state type 'studio board' voicing and wide response that sounds relatively transparent to many of us.

The bad news is, you will rarely find any of this stuff in stock in a music store.

Anway, here's my personal list of heads and cabs that seem to be relatively transparent:

Heads:

Epifani502... while warm and fat sounding, it is clean and full sounding from deep bass through crystal clear highs.... 16 pounds, expensive.

Glockenklang Heart Rock... somewhat similar to the 502... fat, full low end, and a somewhat hi fi, clean top end... big, heavy expensive. The Soul IMO (the lower powered version) didn't have enough ooomph for me personally.

Markbass LMII and F1... you can hear these at Guitar Center, but don't let the very voiced MB cabs define your experience with these very even, wide, clean and precise heads. The LMII is a little fatter and warmer, the F1 a little tighter and more aggressive up top. WONDERFUL sounding to me, loud, relatively inexpensive, and very small and lighweight.

Eden... Nemesis700 or 405... both of these are in stock at Low Down Sound. They are much less 'voiced' than the hybrid WT line of amps (550/800,1205)... the 405 and Nemesis700 sound similar, with the 405 being smaller and lighter and more expensive, and the 700 being less expensive, larger and heavier. Nice stuff.

Thunderfunk550b... they come up used regularly given the introduction of the new larger, very expensive 750a(which seems to be getting some mixed reviews at the moment). Warm, even, very tight in the low end, somewhat warm and organic up top... kind of a 'punchier Eden' type tone... but still not a lot of 'color' to the tone.

CarvinB1500.... LOUD, relatively large, low price, clean and big sounding. They have a 10 day no questions asked return policy... so you can try one for the price of shipping. They are three rack space, but not super heavy, and quite shallow in depth... really nice for the price!

Acoustic Image Focus... small, light, loud, very warm and organic sounding, but pure and clean. Tone controls are limited.

All these heads meet your criteria of 'plug and play'... very little 'knob twisting' needed to get a good, even, full sound out of them, and the EQ on all of them is very straightforward... bass, multiple mid bands, treble, and in some cases a couple of easy to use (and easy to ignore) filters.


Cabs

Acme.. these cabs are quite 'flat' on the scope, but have a huge low end extension that can get in the way in some mixes, and a very mellow, organic paper cone sounding top end that can also get eaten up in some mixes.

Epifani UL... not so much transparent as wide, even and clean and pure. The 410UL is a thing of beauty with the right head... clean, precise, but not sterile.

Bergantino AE.... Jim's new Neo line... a little more aggressive than the Epi's, but still even... more mid voiced... so maybe not as 'transparent' in perception as the Epi's, but still very even, wide and loud.

Accugroove... the Whappo Jr. is kind of in between the Acme voicing and the EpiUL.... punchier and tighter than the Acme, but more organic and full and warm than the EpiUL line.

I particularly like the Epi502/EpiUL combination, and the Markbass heads with either the Epi or Berg cabs. The AI Focus/AcmeB210 combo sounds great to me also if you are looking for clean but very warm and mellow.

All IMO.... I'm in Grosse Pointe Farms and have the Epi410UL and Berg AE410 at the house, along with a Markbass F1 if you ever want to hang and check any of it out. I also have a couple of Aguilar DB112's which are also wide and even and punchy, and a Thunderfunk550b, which while warm and punchy and tight down low, is still clean and relatively transparent sounding.
 
#3
Discounting Carvin would be a big mistake IMO. I am even further away from them than you are and I own a lot of Carvin gear. I have never regretted buying anything from Carvin and they have become the mainstay of my equipment.

IMO you should go the pre/power route if you like how your basses sound unprocessed. You can change how your entire rig works by simply changing out your pre. Check out mic pre-amp strips as these tend not to colour your signal too much. Even a $40 ART tube MP can possibly give you all you need. Buy the power amp to give you the amount of power you need. I really like my Carvin DCM1000 power amp. It's clean, powerful (500W per side into 2Ω, inexpensive (on sale at the moment for $325) and made in the States.

Paul
 
#4
GK, dude. GK. Sounds plenty transparent with the boost less than 9 o'clock. 1001 RB II for 600 bucks, can try one out at guitar center and then get them to price match RMCaudio, or just order from rmcaudio.

Get a GK 1001 RB II + GK Neo 412. The 412 is relatively light, and fairly affordable. You're looking at around 1600 bucks new.

It's easy, the EQ is powerful but sounds good flat, and you can set it and forget it easily (for me that was: contour 10 o'clock, presence 2 o'clock, low: 12, lmid: 2, hmid 12, high: 11, 4/5 voicing on 4 string).

You're not going to find anything better for less, and lots of things just cost a crapload more.
 
#7
I dont have the breadth of experience as mahy others, but IME the iAMP 800/500 are pretty darned uncolored. Pair it with a PA cab?

I adore my GB440 (thunderfunkish) but I dont think I'd call it uncolored, since its got a tone to it that differs from other amps I've used.
 
#9
"Transparency" means so many things to so many different people that I consider it a totally meaningless term. Some people consider a GK transparent and an Ampeg tube amp colored, while I think the exact opposite is true. And since all cabs have their own colorations they add or subtract, you never get truly transparent tone.

So just shoot for something you like rather than something that sounds like it meets the buzzword quota on TB. All amps past a certain price range sound good to someone.
 
#11
bryan bailey said:
Ampeg?

Pretty much the "quick we need an amp that will get a usable tone no matter what"

Used head would be best. For the cab I wouldn't get a peg, maybe one of those mesa powerhouse cabs with the 15 and the four 10's.

I could get that rig to sound good with any of your basses in under a minute.
Click to expand...

I respectfully COMPLETELY disagree. Usable tone quick? Yes. Transparent? Absolutely positively not.

+1 on KJung's suggestion of Epifani or solid state Eden heads. Can't be of much help on cabs, but I can say that you definitely DON'T want Ampeg, Hartke, or Eden cabs, as they will color your sound gloriously. Acme cabs are famous for being completely flat, but their even tone has a tendency to get lost in a mix, in my experience.
 
#14
rpsands said:
GK, dude. GK. Sounds plenty transparent with the boost less than 9 o'clock. 1001 RB II for 600 bucks, can try one out at guitar center and then get them to price match RMCaudio, or just order from rmcaudio.

Get a GK 1001 RB II + GK Neo 412. The 412 is relatively light, and fairly affordable. You're looking at around 1600 bucks new.

It's easy, the EQ is powerful but sounds good flat, and you can set it and forget it easily (for me that was: contour 10 o'clock, presence 2 o'clock, low: 12, lmid: 2, hmid 12, high: 11, 4/5 voicing on 4 string).

You're not going to find anything better for less, and lots of things just cost a crapload more.
Click to expand...

+1 I don't have experience with lots of amps and cabs, but rely on a G-K 700RB-II and Neo112 for most gigs (and hope to get another Neo112 soon). It seems to bring out the distinctive character of each bass more than other rigs I've used. I'm not sure that makes it transparent, but it seems to be what you want. And it sounds great in a band mix. (I've heard others use my rig on stage, and it really is good.) The inherent character is smooth, full-range clarity, so it's a good "canvas" for effects, different basses, etc.
 
#15
Per the above posts:

Walter Woods... another good option, but so expensive that I didn't bother to list it... and IMO the newer class D/SMPS amps like the Marbkass F1 now outperform even the Walter Ultra (IME) in volume, even tone, and punch... much less size, weight, and cost.

EA iAmp.... quite 'transparent', but totally NOT plug and play... so I left that off my list. I also don't personally dig the big low end extension of those heads, which I always had trouble controlling... more big, wide, pure, deep and sizzly than 'even and punchy' to my ear...

GK 700/1001... REALLY nice sounding, but I really hear a 'GK voicing' in there that kept those very nice amps off my list. However, definitely worth a look, given the price/volume ratio, and the fact that they are relatively plug and play if you just ignore most of the zillion knobs and buttons and biamps, etc., etc.

IMO!
 
#16
Check out the Mesa fathom and the powerhouse cab of your choice. The 10" and 12" loaded cabs are both great.

You could help us out by letting us know which rigs turned you off and made you feel like you were hearing the "amp sound" instead of your own.
 
#17
rpsands said:
GK, dude. GK. Sounds plenty transparent with the boost less than 9 o'clock. 1001 RB II for 600 bucks, can try one out at guitar center and then get them to price match RMCaudio, or just order from rmcaudio.

Get a GK 1001 RB II + GK Neo 412. The 412 is relatively light, and fairly affordable. You're looking at around 1600 bucks new.

It's easy, the EQ is powerful but sounds good flat, and you can set it and forget it easily (for me that was: contour 10 o'clock, presence 2 o'clock, low: 12, lmid: 2, hmid 12, high: 11, 4/5 voicing on 4 string).

You're not going to find anything better for less, and lots of things just cost a crapload more.
Click to expand...
I like GK because it is colored. I disagree with his opinion. I think GK is not what you are looking for.

Also, look at Dr. Bass cabs, Acme Cabs,

A markbass LMII

and carvin amps could be a great idea.
Jonathan
 
#18
JimmyM said:
"Transparency" means so many things to so many different people that I consider it a totally meaningless term. Some people consider a GK transparent and an Ampeg tube amp colored, while I think the exact opposite is true.
Click to expand...

Neither of those amps are very transparent. Transparency is not a meaningless term, it means input=output.

Alex
 
#19
Thank you guys tremendously on the suggestions so far. Lots of good stuff in this!

I understand that there were a lot of "buzzwords" in that original post, so I'll try and simplify a little. Looking back on it, I'm really just looking for something with a ton of head room, the ability to have minimal coloration at higher volumes, with a full range cab(s?) that remains clear at higher volumes without turning into mud.

And, as Alex said in the post above, "input=output", even when it's played LOUDLY.

There's a lot of good stuff to go check out on this list, so this is going to be fun. Thanks folks, and please keep the suggestions coming!
 
#20
Avalon U5 into a Carvin DCM 600 or 1000 into a bill Fitzmaurice Omni 15.

I seriously doubt any other offering here will be as transparent as that combination. unless there is an even more transparent pre out there.

And sure you sa that price isn't an option - but for a cab that you can have someone build (i think there are people in the detroit area that have this cab - go to www.billfitzmaurice.com and ask around) it's cost/ performance ratio is very economical
 

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