A more balanced TIJF set

[GK Breivik]

Since all shows have been cancelled indefinetely due to the Corona virus, I have a lot of free time on my hands ...

I have had an issue with the otherwise fantastic Thomastik Jazz flats. The A string is very unbalanced with the other strings IMO. Both in terms of tone and feel.

The somewhat obvious thing to do, despite warnings from manufacturer and vendors alike, is to substitute the stock 070 A with the heavier 072 from the extra long scale set. There have been a few other posts on this, and I’d like to offer another data point.

IT WORKS GREAT!

It’s so much better that you won’t believe it (though I’d still like even a couple of pounds more tension). If you’re a balanced tension fan, just do it. No issues with the string length on a Stingray 5. Should be OK with all Fender type basses.

 

[Luckydog]

Thats interesting. Is there a downside?

 

[GK Breivik]

Thats interesting. Is there a downside?

No, not really. The only thing is that the silk on the headstock end becomes a little shorter on that string compared to the others. I could possibly see an issue with a 3/8» tuning peg, but with the Fender size it works great.

 

[thabassmon]

I was thinking the same thing about the A string. The 34inch set fit fine but I can't help but wonder about a thicker A. So I'm not sure. What is the exact length from ball to the silk on the longer scale A string?

 

[GK Breivik]

I’ll see if I can make a measurement, but like I say it fits a standard F style instrument just fine. Tone is far more even with the other strings and the feel is almost there. I’d say a couple of pounds more tension than the 070 A. I think a 074 or so would be even better, but the 072 is pretty close. The difference, especially in tone is very real.

 

[HaphAsSard]

Since all shows have been cancelled indefinetely due to the Corona virus, I have a lot of free time on my hands ...

I have had an issue with the otherwise fantastic Thomastik Jazz flats. The A string is very unbalanced with the other strings IMO. Both in terms of tone and feel.

The somewhat obvious thing to do, despite warnings from manufacturer and vendors alike, is to substitute the stock 070 A with the heavier 072 from the extra long scale set. There have been a few other posts on this, and I’d like to offer another data point.

IT WORKS GREAT!

It’s so much better that you won’t believe it (though I’d still like even a couple of pounds more tension). If you’re a balanced tension fan, just do it. No issues with the string length on a Stingray 5. Should be OK with all Fender type basses.

Tone is far more even with the other strings and the feel is almost there. I’d say a couple of pounds more tension than the 070 A. I think a 074 or so would be even better, but the 072 is pretty close. The difference, especially in tone is very real.

The thing is, your new string is not meaningfully "heavier" than the old in terms of actual tension (lengthways pull).
If you recalculate the tension value given (valid for 36" scale) to obtain the correct one for 34" scale, it comes at a red C hair from the long-scale 070.*
When I realised this my tentative explanation was and is that the super-long 072 probably just has more damping (the inner silk layer), so as not to have it sound too twangy at 36" scale, but about the same mass of metal parts per inch (only a wee bit more, due to the windings of same section as the long-scale have to cover a slightly wider circumference around the core and silk), hence about the same tension, pitch and scale being equal.
(Same thing with the G and D strings; the E strings have markedly different gauges, with the super-long being actually thinner than the long.)


* [To wit:
072 @ 55Hz @ 34" -> 31.85 lbs
070 @ 55Hz @ 34" -> 31.3 lbs
(I can show you my math if you want.)
A half-pound difference is verrry slight.]

 

[thabassmon]

It's only a slight difference, still interested in the result.
The gauges I use for my rounds are equally fussy.
E1 .100, A1 .075, D2 .055,
G2 .042, C3 .032, F3 .020p
I wish the .032 was .030 and once I run out of .020p strings, I'm going to be using 0.021p.

 

[GK Breivik]

Two things: The 36» scale thing is irrelevant as far as I can see. I’m substituting a 070 for a 072 at the same scale (34»). I don’t have the formulas in front of me but there is a difference. About two pounds or so IIRC. If You’re attuned to these things that actually matters. There’s also a difference in pliability/ flexibility which adds to this.

2. IDK if the 36» string is constructed differently than the 34» A, but I doubt it. It doesn’t matter to me, as it fits the set a lot better anyway. Kinda huge difference really.

Each to his own. I know I’ll never go back, that’s for sure.

 

[GK Breivik]

I guess one could weigh the two different strings to see if there’s indeed more metal in one of them, but I’m not that crazy ... ;-)

 

[iiipopes]

One reason I don't use TI flats on anything is the rubber-band A string. For a similar low tension set, La Bella's Low Tension Flats have more tension consistency across the board, and even publish the specs. One caveat: they have not updated the tension spec on the A string since they increased the diameter from a 70 to a 75, and the engineer I asked about it tried to tell me that the larger string wouldn't have more tension. Well, no, I don't have a mechanical engineering degree, but I have studied to know tension is a function of mass, given the same scale and pitch. The current .075, being made the same way, does have more mass than the prior .070, so it does have more tension. I think where the La Bella engineer is confused is that it seems the core diameter may be the same, which affects string stretch and bridge compensation needed.

Purpose of the digression: try the La Bella Low Tension Flats for a more consistent set of strings.

 

[GK Breivik]

I’m sure the LTFs are a great string, but I must say that the TIs feel and sound fantastic for me now. I couldn’t have used them with the stock A, though.

This is for my Stingray 5. Maybe I’ll check out the LTFs on a P bass.

 

[GK Breivik]

Looked into the LTFs now. I guess they could work for a four string, but the low B is far too light. This is one thing that TI got right. The Jazz Flats low B is very well balanced to the rest of the set.