• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

A question about morality and media

#161
nutdog said:
If it were only about money Hollywood would put out more PG and PG13 movies than R. But they don't.
Click to expand...

Why does it need to be "Hollywood" that puts it out?

The argument seems to be that "mainstream media" isn't putting it out. If there are profits to be made, why aren't NON-Hollywood studios putting these things out and reaping the profits?

If there is a huge demand for this sort of entertainment, and mainstream media is not filling that demand - why isn't someone else filling that niche and reaping the (supposed) massive rewards?
 
#162
jmattbassplaya said:
Some people became Nazis because they thought they had no other choice. Germany wasn't in the best spot coming out of WWI as I'm sure you know. Many people were jobless and penniless, so when the Nazi party came along, promised jobs, financial security, and even had a scapegoat to all their country's problems many people went along with it because they just wanted their families to survive.
.
Click to expand...

Historians say if Hitler would have died around 1937 or so he would have been remembered as a great leader. He and the party turned Germany into a powerhouse and Germany
was one of the most sucessful countrys during the great world wide depression. As we all know it went south after 1937 and things got very ugly. By that time the population
was under total control of the Nazi party and if you spoke up aganst the party you were toast. That put a lot of good people between a rock and a hard place.
 
#163
On the R vs PG ratings, etc., I think it's a phenomenon most of us are familiar with as musicians; the guy who wants to play the music he WANTS to play regardless of whether it's what the audience really is asking to hear, just because he WANTS to play it. Movie makers want to feel like they're "pushing the envelope" one way or another with violence or sexuality or whatever, may even feel that they're doing a public service by doing so, but the sales figures show that the public is not that interested. As long as they're not totally going out of business, though, the filmmakers will keep making the kind of movies they want to make.

It's funny on the black-and-white issue, though, because something I think I've seen in at least some movies is that while the "hero" may be morally conflicted or ambiguous, the bad guys in these movies are usually totally demonized, to an extent you didn't used to see. I think that the logic (conscious or not) is that if the hero isn't squeaky clean, we'd better make the bad guys super-monstrous so that the audience still knows who to root for. You don't often see a movie with an honorable enemy any more.

For instance (going back a bit), the movie where I really realized this was Mel Gibson's the Patriot. In that movie, the British were not honorable soldiers trying to enforce the king's taxes and powers of government; no, they had to be goose-stepping murderers and rapists with no redeeming humanity to them, so that we could feel good about Mel Gibson blowing them away.
 
#165
slobake said:
We are responsible for our culture, no one else, us. If no-one goes to movies mentioned they won't make money. Simplistic? Yup. We are better off looking at our own lives than worrying about "them." And that includes me too, I struggle with this sometimes.
For example, we don't want our grandson to be exposed to certian types of movies, so we don't have those movies in our home, so he won't get confused. I didn't want to do it, I let go of some DVD's I really liked but I resisted. My parents didn'
t want me taking drugs, but they didn't connect drinking in front of me with that. Not saying it's theif fault I got in trouble, it's just something to think about.
When I get angry and act poorly my grandson is watching, etc, etc, etc. Each of us has a part in this no matter how small and whether you have children or not. Society is a reflection of us, after all aren't we society.
I'm sure many of you can think of small ways you can make a difference.
Click to expand...

dosomething.png
 
#166
Stewie26 said:
Historians say if Hitler would have died around 1937 or so he would have been remembered as a great leader. He and the party turned Germany into a powerhouse and Germany
was one of the most sucessful countrys during the great world wide depression. As we all know it went south after 1937 and things got very ugly. By that time the population
was under total control of the Nazi party and if you spoke up aganst the party you were toast. That put a lot of good people between a rock and a hard place.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
#167
aborgman said:
Why does it need to be "Hollywood" that puts it out?

The argument seems to be that "mainstream media" isn't putting it out. If there are profits to be made, why aren't NON-Hollywood studios putting these things out and reaping the profits?

If there is a huge demand for this sort of entertainment, and mainstream media is not filling that demand - why isn't someone else filling that niche and reaping the (supposed) massive rewards?
Click to expand...

I'm merely pointing out it's not all about money.

In regard to your questions, some are. In the south part of my state a group has been making movies with a Christian theme. The first was "Facing the Giants". From Wikipedia:

In its first weekend, the film opened on 441 screens nationwide in the United States.[4] Despite such a small number of theaters, the film opened in twelfth place with $1,343,537. Only three films in the top ten released that weekend grossed more per theater. For such a small budget of $100,000, the film ultimately was shown in over 1,000 theaters and grossed a total of $10,178,331
Click to expand...

They then made "Fireproof".

It was released on September 26, 2008 in 839 theaters[20] and grossed $6,836,036 in its opening weekend, placing at #4.[21] During its run, Fireproof had a domestic gross of $33,456,317
Click to expand...

And "Courageous".
The film was produced with a budget of $2 million, but on its opening weekend it grossed $2 million in pre-sales alone and grossed $9.1 million total for the weekend.
Click to expand...

Why aren't others doing it? Well, it ain't easy. For a variety of reasons I'm sure an intelligent person such as yourself can determine.

The question I would ask is, given the proven ability for such movies to make a profit, why wouldn't Hollywood, known for copycatting to the point of nausea to make a buck, get on the bandwagon?
 
#168
nutdog said:
The question I would ask is, given the proven ability for such movies to make a profit, why wouldn't Hollywood, known for copycatting to the point of nausea to make a buck, get on the bandwagon?
Click to expand...

Those profits are very small by industry standards.
Why take a risk on those films when they can pump out Comic Book movies and make a lot more?
 
#169
nutdog said:
I'm merely pointing out it's not all about money.

In regard to your questions, some are. In the south part of my state a group has been making movies with a Christian theme. The first was "Facing the Giants". From Wikipedia:



They then made "Fireproof".



And "Courageous".


Why aren't others doing it? Well, it ain't easy. For a variety of reasons I'm sure an intelligent person such as yourself can determine.

The question I would ask is, given the proven ability for such movies to make a profit, why wouldn't Hollywood, known for copycatting to the point of nausea to make a buck, get on the bandwagon?
Click to expand...

I liked "Blue Like Jazz" but around here you had to search for it and then go see it quick before it disapeered.
 
#170
burk48237 said:
Who were the non-monsters who were "involved" in Nazism?
Click to expand...

Many of those in the German service weren't fighting for Hitler; they were fighting for Germany, the country in which they had allegiance - the same way many members of the Confederacy weren't fighting to keep slavery, they were fighting for their homeland (including Lee himself).

Seriously, an entire nation, and a culturally refined progressive one at that, listened to a madman create an enemy to blame for all of their problems (the Jews) and the nation bought into it. And those that didn't acquiesced to it in the early years when it could have been derailed. When Good men keep silent........
Click to expand...

While it was a horrible tragedy that Hitler and his ilk were allowed to come to power and do what they did, this above statement is very naive. When you get time, look up the research of two psychologists, Philip Zimbardo and Stanely Milgrim. While currently no sane IRB would allow them to conduct the research that they they did in the past, their studies have given some very interesting - and quite disturbing - insights into human behavior. Even normally adjusted, well-socialized people aren't immune to allowing dispicable things to happen (or actually partaking in said things).

Also, it's interesting that Rambo got mentioned in this thread. I actually always found Rambo to be a pretty deep character. I've actually never read the book First Blood, but I imagine it would give even more insight into Rambo. I also always found the movies to be incredibly anti-Vietnam, but not anti-Vietnam in the typical sense. They focused on what happens to people in the service when they come back from war to a nation that rejects them. Ironically though, I always found it funny that the Afghans were portrayed as underdog heros in Rambo 3, but there's no way that narrative would have been portrayed if the movie had been released after 9/11.
 
#173
Why is it that the same people who are so up in arms about the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" and calling for censorship and jail for those involved are the same ones who sit in front of their TVs watching Arnie, Segal, Willis, Stallone, etal kill hundreds of people per movie call that "damn fine family entertainment"?

I was once told by an Englishman I knew that the major difference between Americans and Europeans was that here we think a bare breast is the hallmark of depravity and heroic killing is good, and they thought just the opposite over there.
 
#174
fjadams said:
Why is it that the same people who are so up in arms about the Janet Jackson "wardrobe malfunction" and calling for censorship and jail for those involved are the same ones who sit in front of their TVs watching Arnie, Segal, Willis, Stallone, etal kill hundreds of people per movie call that "damn fine family entertainment"?

I was once told by an Englishman I knew that the major difference between Americans and Europeans was that here we think a bare breast is the hallmark of depravity and heroic killing is good, and they thought just the opposite over there.
Click to expand...

I find this last part utterly hilarious. What would the same Englishman say using Germany and England? They are commpletely different in this type of ethic. While the brits may have disdain for this "action violence" on tv or the big screen, historical violence is quite prevolent in their society. As for nudity, the british are still brought up with a sense of morality that is not taught in this country much. So the comparative between th 2 countries is pretty much ridiculous. Just as the comparative between Germany and England would be. Spend some time in Europe, you'll find country to country the morality and upbringing of the youth varies greatly.
 
#175
Musiclogic said:
I find this last part utterly hilarious. What would the same Englishman say using Germany and England? They are commpletely different in this type of ethic. While the brits may have disdain for this "action violence" on tv or the big screen, historical violence is quite prevolent in their society. As for nudity, the british are still brought up with a sense of morality that is not taught in this country much. So the comparative between th 2 countries is pretty much ridiculous. Just as the comparative between Germany and England would be. Spend some time in Europe, you'll find country to country the morality and upbringing of the youth varies greatly.
Click to expand...

Unlike the historical violence of America of course.

Yes, boobs were the debil :rolleyes:

Id say we're still brought up to keep a stiff upper lip and not get quite as carried away with ourselves...
 
#176
MatticusMania said:
Those profits are very small by industry standards.
Why take a risk on those films when they can pump out Comic Book movies and make a lot more?
Click to expand...

aborgman said:
For the same reason your average investment banker doesn't become a stock boy.

Those profit numbers are TINY for the movie industry.
Click to expand...

You really think so? Going by that yahoo article the average R rated movie grossed just under 17 million. Keep in mind the worst grossing movie I listed was made by a group in Albany, GA (Heard of it? They pronounce it All-Benny.). No big Hollywood machine backing, yet

In its first weekend, the film opened on 441 screens nationwide in the United States.[4] Despite such a small number of theaters, the film opened in twelfth place with $1,343,537.
Click to expand...

Honestly it wasn't a very good movie. But it made money because there is a market.

Then consider Passion of the Christ. Hollywood wouldn't touch it. Gibson made it with his own money and grossed $300 million. Of course you remember the string of copycats after that. ;)

Nothing wrong with comic book movies. I have two young boys. They want to see all of them. For some reason Transformers, Ironman, et al. can't resist masturbation references, softcore sex and potty mouth language. I can't speak for everyone but they would make more money off us if they could. Maybe you guys needed the mental image of Shia Lebouf wanking to keep it real.:)
 
#178
nutdog said:
Some of us that engage in friendly Internet conversation didn't realize we had joined the high school debate team. Must be buried in the TOS fine print.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter if you're on the high school debate team, trying to covince your boss in a meeting about a marketing idea, defending your dissertation in front of a committee in a doctoral program, or trying to make a cogent argument on an Internet forum: you have to be able to justify your thinking. Not all opinions are created equal.
 
#179
LiquidMidnight said:
Doesn't matter if you're on the high school debate team, trying to covince your boss in a meeting about a marketing idea, defending your dissertation in front of a committee in a doctoral program, or trying to make a cogent argument on an Internet forum: you have to be able to justify your thinking. Not all opinions are created equal.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll forfeit all the fabulous prizes.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back