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A question about pickup location.

I'm no luthier and the knowledge on this forum from folks who are is VAST! I WILL say that I used to do set-ups for a blind guitarist. He always asked me to tilt his Strat pickups toward the neck, as he preferred that tone. I would use angled foam to achieve this result. Did it make a difference? Apparently it did to him. Who am I to argue? His aural acuity was probably better than mine.

BBB
 
I'm no luthier and the knowledge on this forum from folks who are is VAST! I WILL say that I used to do set-ups for a blind guitarist. He always asked me to tilt his Strat pickups toward the neck, as he preferred that tone. I would use angled foam to achieve this result. Did it make a difference? Apparently it did to him. Who am I to argue? His aural acuity was probably better than mine.

BBB
I can see it. Or should I say "hear" tilted pickups. It has to be my bass and the pickups need to be near the strings, but I can hear a difference. I used to run my rear pickup angled back towards the bridge and the front angled towards the neck.
All I know is that when I solo a pickup on my jazz bass, I prefer by far the sound coming out of the neck pickup to the bridge pickup. The neck pickup sounds too dry for me.
That can be useful in some rooms. If I domt have a high pass handy in a boomy room, I can favor the bridge and just boost the bass to taste.
Other than those circumstances, I could honestly live without a bridge pickup, though I do like mixed pickups if they are in the right places.
 
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Yes, this subject of pickup position vs change in sound has been discussed many, many times here deep in the archives of knowledge in Luthier's Corner.

Here are two quick pastes of mine from about 5 years ago:

About ten years back, I made up a bench mule specifically for testing out pickup position. It's much cruder that what you've built here. The body is literally a rectangle of 3/4" plywood. The neck is a partially completed leftover, not even fully carved on the back, and with pencil lines for frets. Bridge, tailpiece, pickups, neck are all just screwed down to the plywood. A small electrical panel with lab-type binding posts for quickly configuring wiring.

All the geometry is set up to match one of my Scroll Basses. And it's fitted with a used set of Chromes, which are what I use. The only pickups I tested were my own, not any standard models. I built this rig specifically to figure out where I wanted to position the pickup on the body of my Scroll Bass design.

After playing around with it for a while, my conclusions are:

Putting the pickup in the middle of the body, about the 36 fret position plus or minus an inch, gives the pickup its fullest, truest sound. That's where the pickup has the fullest range, and the flattest version of its built-in EQ curve.

From there, sliding the pickup towards the bridge basically just cuts the Bass. It doesn't turn up the Treble, but only lowers the bottom end of the curve. This is assuming that the pickup height in relation to the strings is kept the same. It's as if I had reached over to the amp and turned the Bass knob down two or three notches and changed nothing else. Not a drastic change, but a reduction in the bass end.

Sliding the pickup from the middle towards the neck, to around the 24th position, resulted in a small increase in the Bass. Like turning the amp's Bass knob up one or two notches. Again, without much effect on the Treble or Mids.

The other thing that pickup position affects is the depth of the attack curve; specifically the level of the pulse on the beginning of the note. The closer the pickup is to the neck, the louder the "pop" on the beginning of the note. But the sustained part of the note stays the same. The closer to the bridge, the lower the pop goes in relation to the sustain.

Conclusion: Adjusting the position of the pickup on the body is mostly about raising or lowering the level of the bottom end of the frequency curve, but it also affects the depth of the attack curve. Towards the neck is more percussive and heavier bass. Towards the bridge is less percussive and less bass. It's a smooth logarithmic curve in either direction. No magic sweet spots where something strange happens.

That's what I learned. I'm curious to hear what you find.

From a different thread:

Most of us established (as in grey-haired) Luthiers have gone through the process of messing with pickup positions. When I got into designing and building my own pickups about 15 years ago, like everyone else, I built a bench mule and spent some time experimenting with moving the pickup up and down the body. The results were underwhelming.

Summary:
Take one particular pickup and mount it right in the middle of the body. Set the bass Tone controls wide open, and the amp's EQ controls all on 5. That's the "natural" sound of that pickup, when used with that combination of strings, the bass frame, and the amp.

Now, if you slide the pickup toward the bridge, the change in the sound is all in the bottom end of the EQ. It's just as if you had reached over to the amp and turned the Bass knob down from 5 to 4 to 3. It's not increasing the Treble, it's moderately cutting down the Bass. That's the only thing that's changing in the overall sound of the rig.

Slide the pickup the other way, toward the neck, and you boost the Bass from 5 to 6 to 7. The Treble stays the same; the Bass end of the curve gets louder.

Sliding the pickup doesn't change whether the pickup is muddy or clear, it just subdues it or exaggerates it. If the pickup, by its internal design, is muddy in the bottom end, then sliding it toward the neck will make the muddiness louder and more obvious. Sliding it toward the bridge will make the muddiness quieter. If the pickup's natural sound is very clear and wide range, sliding it toward the neck will boost a clear bottom end. Toward the bridge, it will reduce the bottom end, but still be very clear.

The point is that most of a pickups' tonal characteristic comes from its internal construction; the size and power of the magnetic field, the geometry of the coils, the size and number of turns of wire, etc., etc. None of that changes when you slide it around on the body. All you are doing is moderately adjusting the bottom end of the overall EQ curve.

There are no real "magic sweet spots" in the pickup position. Unless your definition of Magic Sweet Spot is that "the EQ curve sounds just the way I want it right here" or "right here it sounds just like this other bass". Okay. Pickup position is pretty much a linear adjustment. You can slide the pickup where you want it to get the Treble/Bass balance of the EQ where you want it. After you've settled on one position, you can further adjust the EQ balance by reaching over to the amp and turning the Bass knob up or down.

That's what we builders and manufacturers do. We set the pickup position on the body as a final adjustment of the overall EQ balance, for that particular pickup.​

And then to add to this terrific posting by Bruce Johnson, IF you set a single pickup (this happens on a double pickup bass, but often isn't as obvious with both pickups on), and then move your plucking hand along the string beginning just off the end of the fingerboard and slowly work/pluck the string steadily moving down towards the bridge, you will hear . . . . the same thing. Big, puffy, and like organ pedals at the end of the fingerboard all the way down to a Tele-like twang right at the bridge.

And to add to the hair-splitting, WHERE you set that one pickup (and what type pickup it is) affects this.
 
How do you guys choose pickup location?
Do you base it on math and harmonic points on the strings or just do what "feels/sounds" right?
Looks. Aesthetics. That's it.

I'm a minority voice here, but I think all the harmonics-related calculations go right out the window as soon as you start playing fretted notes. The closer you are to the bridge, the more moving the pickup will have an effect. But if you're as far away from the bridge as the typical P pickup, 1/2" displacement either way isn't going to make much of a difference.
 
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The short answer is that pickup placement has a lot to do with the tone of the instrument IMO. Where to place a single pickup is very much dependent on the genre(s) of music you are playing with that instrument, your plucking technique and what your ear expects to hear. The pickup type also has a very large effect. I suppose the physics of it would help but ultimately your ears have to decide.

In my case, for my needs, I looked at placements on instruments that I like the sound of on various internet sites. Admittedly there was wide variation in effects applied and how they were recorded but there was some guidance to be had. For example, for my six string currently being built and what I want out of it, I looked at the pickup placement of a Fodera Anthony Jackson Signature model and the iconic placement of the forward pickup on a J Bass, as starting points. My pickup is a custom wound "in the style of" a J Bass.
 
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Just a question of curiosity and I didn't really know where to put it. I tried Google, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

How much does small pickup movement (forward or rearward) affect the sound?

I theorize about as much as moving your hand closer or further from the neck while playing.

If that is the case, if I were building a single pickup bass, wouldn't placing the pickup under my preferred playing zone make the most sense?

How do you guys choose pickup location?
Do you base it on math and harmonic points on the strings or just do what "feels/sounds" right?

On a Jazz Bass, which of course has two pickups, the placement of the Bridge pickup produces a distinctly different sound depending on where it is set. The 1960's pickups and current pickups on the Jazz bass have a 3.6" center to center measurement and The 70's era pickup spacing is 4" center to center. The neck pickup is located in the same place on all of them but the bridge pickup on the 70's era spacing is almost 1/2" closer to the bridge than on the "normal" pickup spacing for a Jazz Bass.

Over the years, I've had both types of pickup spacing. The first one was a 1965 Jazz that I bought in 1966. Played it through high school and some college and then toured with it for 3 years playing 4-hours a night, 5-nights a week, 50-weeks a year. I got to know the sound and feel of that Jazz bass real well. After touring I played weekends in the LA area until I moved my wife and two kids from North Hollywood up to Wood Village, Oregon in 1976. We stayed at my in-law's house for a couple of weeks waiting for our apartment to be cleaned and painted. Then one night while everyone was away the house was burglarized and all my touring gear was stolen. And so commenced my search for another Jazz that had the same profile, shape, and radius that my '65 had. Little did I know that search would take almost 10-years to

Finally, in 1985, I found and bought a 1982 white-bound, maple-neck Jazz, with the 70's era pickup spacing and that same neck profile, shape, and radius that my '65 had. When I picked it up and started to play it, it felt like coming home! And that's the bass I've been playing for the last 39-years. Although the sound is similar and very distinctly a Jazz Bass sound, my '82 has a little brighter sound than my '65 did, specifically because of the placement of the bridge pickup being closer to the bridge. To make it growl I just dig into the strings over the bridge pickup and it will growl all day long. My '65 would also growl when doing that but not as easily and not as much. The other thing that is a lot different is the sustain that I get with my '82 Jazz. It gets much better sustain than my '65 did. I think the all-maple neck on my '82 Jazz has something to do with that. My '65 of course, had maple neck with rosewood fretboard.

Because of that brighter sound and far better sustain, even if I was able to get my '65 Jazz back, my '82 Jazz would definitely remain my primary bass. So I'd say YES, absolutely pickup placement has a lot to do with the sound of your bass.
 
Small fractions can make a giant difference....the question becomes whether or not it is "details" or "minutia" depending on the individual or application. A perfect example came up recently in an A/B audio comparison of 60s and 70s Jazz bass positions. As a bass player, I heard the difference audibly but if used in the context of a recording, both sounded like Jazz basses and either was a good choice with the differences being negligible in the context
YMMV
 
The ultimate easy way to see how pu location may/will affect tone.

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The ultimate easy way to see how pu location may/will affect tone.

View attachment 5443733
I've actually dreamed up ideas like this before. Heck I even revised the idea since making this thread. My idea was more traditional though. It did incorporate 2 poles to slide pickups, so similar design to that, but small ones that could fit in a standard sized wood body with a large routed pickup pocket. It's all relatively easy to do, I just don't have the proper tools.
I know I've seen guys route out test bodies ejere they can freely move the pups. Maybe one day I'll try it in the more traditional way just to see for myself.
 
Great thread - many have voiced what I have been unable to but felt unconsciously. Some small points that might matter:

My testbed was a borrowed Gibson Grabber from the 80s - has anyone got any conclusions from that bass beyond the obvious?

The classic "scooped" Jazz bass sound is, in part, due to some phase cancellation between the 2 PUs. This sound can be subtly changed by altering the relative heights of the PUs, and differently again by the relative 'slant'. This is another level of complexity. Soloing one PU is quite different.

It seems remarkable difficult to position one PU so as to produce a consistently good sound at all points on the fingerboard. I think it better to favor the lower end for lower strings, and further up the fingerboard for upper strings - if that's possible. It depends on the player, but some averaging should be possible.

The split Precision PU is clever, whether you like the sound or not. Self humbucking and individual height adjustment for each string is the combination of two clever ideas. Like the theme of this thread I decided to try the reverse P orientation, and I was very pleased with the improved fundamentals - my E string less thumpy, my D string more bassy, A string no change, G string better from 5th fret upward. A definite improvement for me. No HPF required.

I would love to hear a 5er with reverse P, but with 2 poles for the B & E (the hardest to equalise), and 3 poles for the A, D & G. I've never seen one.
 
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Looks. Aesthetics. That's it.
To expand on this a bit...

When I was getting my 3-pickup jazz built, I used a Warmoth body. I had the bridge pickup in the standard position, because I wouldn't have to pay anything extra for that. I had the other two pickups routed 2 inches edge-to-edge, first because I thought it would look cool, and second because I felt that would optimize the amount of area available on the body without getting too close to the neck, and give me the greatest tonal flexibility. The guitar players in two different bands I was in told me it's the best sounding bass they've ever heard. (For whatever that's worth.)

The point being I did it for the looks, and trusted that it would sound good. I think if you start with quality components, it's going to sound good. You'd have to mess something up for it to not sound good.
 

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