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A question about pickup location.

Mar 28, 2019
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Just a question of curiosity and I didn't really know where to put it. I tried Google, but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

How much does small pickup movement (forward or rearward) affect the sound?

I theorize about as much as moving your hand closer or further from the neck while playing.

If that is the case, if I were building a single pickup bass, wouldn't placing the pickup under my preferred playing zone make the most sense?

How do you guys choose pickup location?
Do you base it on math and harmonic points on the strings or just do what "feels/sounds" right?
 
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Note that the instant you fret/finger a note, you are creating a new 'scale length' of that note to the saddle. The relative location of the pickup of course will move compared to the base scale of the instrument. So wherever you put the pickup, each fretted/fingered location will have it's own distance from the pickup, and consequently, it's own 'voicing' in the instrument. So in the end, any pickup position will come with it's own series of compromises.

In my case, unless I'm emulating an existing design with an existing pickup, I usually just build a quick rig to suspend the pickup above the strings, and then plug it in and move it around on the body until I find a position I like. For what it's worth, I nearly always choose something between the theoretical 28th fret and about 1" away from the saddles. Closer to the neck sounds too muddy to me, and closer to the bridge, too bright and twangy. Funny how 99% of basses designed to be basses also locate the pickups in this range of positions. :D
 
Yes, this subject of pickup position vs change in sound has been discussed many, many times here deep in the archives of knowledge in Luthier's Corner.

Here are two quick pastes of mine from about 5 years ago:

About ten years back, I made up a bench mule specifically for testing out pickup position. It's much cruder that what you've built here. The body is literally a rectangle of 3/4" plywood. The neck is a partially completed leftover, not even fully carved on the back, and with pencil lines for frets. Bridge, tailpiece, pickups, neck are all just screwed down to the plywood. A small electrical panel with lab-type binding posts for quickly configuring wiring.

All the geometry is set up to match one of my Scroll Basses. And it's fitted with a used set of Chromes, which are what I use. The only pickups I tested were my own, not any standard models. I built this rig specifically to figure out where I wanted to position the pickup on the body of my Scroll Bass design.

After playing around with it for a while, my conclusions are:

Putting the pickup in the middle of the body, about the 36 fret position plus or minus an inch, gives the pickup its fullest, truest sound. That's where the pickup has the fullest range, and the flattest version of its built-in EQ curve.

From there, sliding the pickup towards the bridge basically just cuts the Bass. It doesn't turn up the Treble, but only lowers the bottom end of the curve. This is assuming that the pickup height in relation to the strings is kept the same. It's as if I had reached over to the amp and turned the Bass knob down two or three notches and changed nothing else. Not a drastic change, but a reduction in the bass end.

Sliding the pickup from the middle towards the neck, to around the 24th position, resulted in a small increase in the Bass. Like turning the amp's Bass knob up one or two notches. Again, without much effect on the Treble or Mids.

The other thing that pickup position affects is the depth of the attack curve; specifically the level of the pulse on the beginning of the note. The closer the pickup is to the neck, the louder the "pop" on the beginning of the note. But the sustained part of the note stays the same. The closer to the bridge, the lower the pop goes in relation to the sustain.

Conclusion: Adjusting the position of the pickup on the body is mostly about raising or lowering the level of the bottom end of the frequency curve, but it also affects the depth of the attack curve. Towards the neck is more percussive and heavier bass. Towards the bridge is less percussive and less bass. It's a smooth logarithmic curve in either direction. No magic sweet spots where something strange happens.

That's what I learned. I'm curious to hear what you find.

From a different thread:

Most of us established (as in grey-haired) Luthiers have gone through the process of messing with pickup positions. When I got into designing and building my own pickups about 15 years ago, like everyone else, I built a bench mule and spent some time experimenting with moving the pickup up and down the body. The results were underwhelming.

Summary:
Take one particular pickup and mount it right in the middle of the body. Set the bass Tone controls wide open, and the amp's EQ controls all on 5. That's the "natural" sound of that pickup, when used with that combination of strings, the bass frame, and the amp.

Now, if you slide the pickup toward the bridge, the change in the sound is all in the bottom end of the EQ. It's just as if you had reached over to the amp and turned the Bass knob down from 5 to 4 to 3. It's not increasing the Treble, it's moderately cutting down the Bass. That's the only thing that's changing in the overall sound of the rig.

Slide the pickup the other way, toward the neck, and you boost the Bass from 5 to 6 to 7. The Treble stays the same; the Bass end of the curve gets louder.

Sliding the pickup doesn't change whether the pickup is muddy or clear, it just subdues it or exaggerates it. If the pickup, by its internal design, is muddy in the bottom end, then sliding it toward the neck will make the muddiness louder and more obvious. Sliding it toward the bridge will make the muddiness quieter. If the pickup's natural sound is very clear and wide range, sliding it toward the neck will boost a clear bottom end. Toward the bridge, it will reduce the bottom end, but still be very clear.

The point is that most of a pickups' tonal characteristic comes from its internal construction; the size and power of the magnetic field, the geometry of the coils, the size and number of turns of wire, etc., etc. None of that changes when you slide it around on the body. All you are doing is moderately adjusting the bottom end of the overall EQ curve.

There are no real "magic sweet spots" in the pickup position. Unless your definition of Magic Sweet Spot is that "the EQ curve sounds just the way I want it right here" or "right here it sounds just like this other bass". Okay. Pickup position is pretty much a linear adjustment. You can slide the pickup where you want it to get the Treble/Bass balance of the EQ where you want it. After you've settled on one position, you can further adjust the EQ balance by reaching over to the amp and turning the Bass knob up or down.

That's what we builders and manufacturers do. We set the pickup position on the body as a final adjustment of the overall EQ balance, for that particular pickup.​
 
I thank yall for the input.
So it seems basically, wherever you'd like them to go, out them there.

I was just curious. I figured just playing would be a pretty decent indication of what a pickup would sound like placed where. It seems you guys are saying they react in.much the same way just moving your hand closer or further from the neck or bridge would have.
 
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Note that the instant you fret/finger a note, you are creating a new 'scale length' of that note to the saddle. The relative location of the pickup of course will move compared to the base scale of the instrument. So wherever you put the pickup, each fretted/fingered location will have it's own distance from the pickup, and consequently, it's own 'voicing' in the instrument. So in the end, any pickup position will come with it's own series of compromises.

In my case, unless I'm emulating an existing design with an existing pickup, I usually just build a quick rig to suspend the pickup above the strings, and then plug it in and move it around on the body until I find a position I like. For what it's worth, I nearly always choose something between the theoretical 28th fret and about 1" away from the saddles. Closer to the neck sounds too muddy to me, and closer to the bridge, too bright and twangy. Funny how 99% of basses designed to be basses also locate the pickups in this range of positions. :D
That's where I play most of the time. Between the neck and top pickup. It'd just what sounds best to me.
 
Plucking position and pickup position are not mutually exclusive, nor are they direct 1:1 correlations. You can achieve similar but not entirely the same sounds by changing the location of one or the other.

A pickup right up against the bridge but plucked at the end of the neck won't sound exactly the same as a pickup right up against the neck but plucked right up against the bridge.
 
I mean absolutely NO disrespect, but stating your preference doesn't tell me anything useful. I too like the placement , but I also enjoy other placements. I'd like to know "why" we like them.
I find the P bass pickup is the perfect place for my thumb and I also get an aggressive tone when I pluck the strings where the pickup is located. If I rest my thumb at the neck pocket its a more mellow tone. As far as the placement on the Jazz bass (or any other bass with a neck pickup) I find the tone kind of useless but the neck pickup on the Jazz is ok.
 
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Plucking position and pickup position are not mutually exclusive, nor are they direct 1:1 correlations. You can achieve similar but not entirely the same sounds by changing the location of one or the other.

A pickup right up against the bridge but plucked at the end of the neck won't sound exactly the same as a pickup right up against the neck but plucked right up against the bridge.
I understand. I didn't think it did. I just figured if you were using the neck pup and played nearer the neck moving the pickup closer to where you pluck would make it sound more similar to plucking in that area.
 
Oddly enough, I was just doing some simulations of response versus pickup positions - trying to optimize an idea for a different circuit topology that's in one of my basses.

The straightforward answer is that, when you are talking about what affects the low and low mid frequency character (voicing, if you will) of a bass guitar, the pickup position(s) and how they are combined electrically are where most of that occurs. Pickup height does affect a non-linearity that is in the mix as well, but pickup position and the combining part is more important. At upper mid and high frequencies, the pickup and how you electrically load it become more a part of the equation.

One thing to note: The comb filtering imparted by pickup location(s) is a wavelength filter. OK, so what? What that means is that the filtering on every string is different in terms of frequency response. So, if you don't like how the pickup location affects the sound of you bass, you can (in theory) fix it for one string, but the other strings will probably get worse - the filter to "correct" each string is different. The classic example of this is a Stingray - there the circuit includes a boost at low frequencies to counteract the fact that the pickup is closer to the bridge than it is on, say, a P. It works well on the lower strings, but by the time you get to the G string, that eq isn't really working in the frequency range it needs to, leading to the complaints about Stingrays having "thin/weak sounding G strings".
 
Yes, this subject of pickup position vs change in sound has been discussed many, many times here deep in the archives of knowledge in Luthier's Corner.

Here are two quick pastes of mine from about 5 years ago:

About ten years back, I made up a bench mule specifically for testing out pickup position. It's much cruder that what you've built here. The body is literally a rectangle of 3/4" plywood. The neck is a partially completed leftover, not even fully carved on the back, and with pencil lines for frets. Bridge, tailpiece, pickups, neck are all just screwed down to the plywood. A small electrical panel with lab-type binding posts for quickly configuring wiring.

All the geometry is set up to match one of my Scroll Basses. And it's fitted with a used set of Chromes, which are what I use. The only pickups I tested were my own, not any standard models. I built this rig specifically to figure out where I wanted to position the pickup on the body of my Scroll Bass design.

After playing around with it for a while, my conclusions are:

Putting the pickup in the middle of the body, about the 36 fret position plus or minus an inch, gives the pickup its fullest, truest sound. That's where the pickup has the fullest range, and the flattest version of its built-in EQ curve.

From there, sliding the pickup towards the bridge basically just cuts the Bass. It doesn't turn up the Treble, but only lowers the bottom end of the curve. This is assuming that the pickup height in relation to the strings is kept the same. It's as if I had reached over to the amp and turned the Bass knob down two or three notches and changed nothing else. Not a drastic change, but a reduction in the bass end.

Sliding the pickup from the middle towards the neck, to around the 24th position, resulted in a small increase in the Bass. Like turning the amp's Bass knob up one or two notches. Again, without much effect on the Treble or Mids.

The other thing that pickup position affects is the depth of the attack curve; specifically the level of the pulse on the beginning of the note. The closer the pickup is to the neck, the louder the "pop" on the beginning of the note. But the sustained part of the note stays the same. The closer to the bridge, the lower the pop goes in relation to the sustain.

Conclusion: Adjusting the position of the pickup on the body is mostly about raising or lowering the level of the bottom end of the frequency curve, but it also affects the depth of the attack curve. Towards the neck is more percussive and heavier bass. Towards the bridge is less percussive and less bass. It's a smooth logarithmic curve in either direction. No magic sweet spots where something strange happens.

That's what I learned. I'm curious to hear what you find.

From a different thread:

Most of us established (as in grey-haired) Luthiers have gone through the process of messing with pickup positions. When I got into designing and building my own pickups about 15 years ago, like everyone else, I built a bench mule and spent some time experimenting with moving the pickup up and down the body. The results were underwhelming.

Summary:
Take one particular pickup and mount it right in the middle of the body. Set the bass Tone controls wide open, and the amp's EQ controls all on 5. That's the "natural" sound of that pickup, when used with that combination of strings, the bass frame, and the amp.

Now, if you slide the pickup toward the bridge, the change in the sound is all in the bottom end of the EQ. It's just as if you had reached over to the amp and turned the Bass knob down from 5 to 4 to 3. It's not increasing the Treble, it's moderately cutting down the Bass. That's the only thing that's changing in the overall sound of the rig.

Slide the pickup the other way, toward the neck, and you boost the Bass from 5 to 6 to 7. The Treble stays the same; the Bass end of the curve gets louder.

Sliding the pickup doesn't change whether the pickup is muddy or clear, it just subdues it or exaggerates it. If the pickup, by its internal design, is muddy in the bottom end, then sliding it toward the neck will make the muddiness louder and more obvious. Sliding it toward the bridge will make the muddiness quieter. If the pickup's natural sound is very clear and wide range, sliding it toward the neck will boost a clear bottom end. Toward the bridge, it will reduce the bottom end, but still be very clear.

The point is that most of a pickups' tonal characteristic comes from its internal construction; the size and power of the magnetic field, the geometry of the coils, the size and number of turns of wire, etc., etc. None of that changes when you slide it around on the body. All you are doing is moderately adjusting the bottom end of the overall EQ curve.

There are no real "magic sweet spots" in the pickup position. Unless your definition of Magic Sweet Spot is that "the EQ curve sounds just the way I want it right here" or "right here it sounds just like this other bass". Okay. Pickup position is pretty much a linear adjustment. You can slide the pickup where you want it to get the Treble/Bass balance of the EQ where you want it. After you've settled on one position, you can further adjust the EQ balance by reaching over to the amp and turning the Bass knob up or down.

That's what we builders and manufacturers do. We set the pickup position on the body as a final adjustment of the overall EQ balance, for that particular pickup.​

what is a bench mule? googling only gives me bench seats for a kawasaki mule
 
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Well, as an example, the 51-57 (tele-style) original P basses with the single coil pickups have a pickup position that is directly over a node. That means it's an area of the string where certain vibrations (and therefore certain overtones) cancel out. If you play one, you'll notice that there is no sound if you try to play the harmonics at the 4th (or 9th) frets. No Portrait Of Tracy or Continuum for you!

Pickup position has a gigantic effect on the sound!
 
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Well, as an example, the 51-57 (tele-style) original P basses with the single coil pickups have a pickup position that is directly over a node. That means it's an area of the string where certain vibrations (and therefore certain overtones) cancel out. If you play one, you'll notice that there is no sound if you try to play the harmonics at the 4th (or 9th) frets. No Portrait Of Tracy or Continuum for you!

Pickup position has a gigantic effect on the sound!
That sure sounds handy.
would save me a ton of muting hassles lol. I play an ibanez sr and I swear there are harmonics EVERYWHERE!! I have to be so careful about where I place my hands for muting.
 
what is a bench mule? googling only gives me bench seats for a kawasaki mule

IMG_1291B.jpg


It's a test rig, for testing pickups and control systems. It has a neck, strings, hardware, and a plywood block body that rests on a bench. I built this one for the development of the pickup system for my Series IV basses, back in 2004. Scale length, hardware position, etc., all match the bass. I used the mule to work out details of the pickup design, pickup position, and the control circuit.