A question for the IEM / Sound experts.

[el murdoque]

When I bought my last set of IEMs, I did try out a lot of them - and looked at even more.
One thing I did not understand is this:

Quite often, you see a lineup like this:

Model 1: One driver. Cheapest entry model.
Model 2: Multiple drivers, 1 bass, 1 middle, 1 treble. The "real" entry model.
Model 3: Same as model 2, but with more bass drivers. Marketed for drummers and bassists.
Model 4: Multiple drivers for everything. Marketed as the pro choice.

My question is about Model 3 in this regard. Why would I, as a bassist, want a pair of headphones that has more bass?
In the very first second, this sounds like a good idea. But as soon as the brain starts working on the scenario, the first thought that pops into my head is:
If the bass is properly EQ'ed to sit in the mix perfectly, and I listen back to it on a device that does more low end, it will sound too big. As a result, I will back off on my EQ device until it's perfect in my personal mix, and therefore it'll be thinned out on every other listening device that does not come with a boosted bass.
This sounds like a very bad idea to me.
I personally prefer a device that is (relatively) flat in response, but capable of pumping out loads of bass - but only when fed loads of bass.



Am I missing something here?

 

[JimmyM]

Nobody is wrong. You should do what you think is right for you. Some bassists and drummers want their IEMs to exaggerate their presence and some don’t. I’m one who hates it but I don’t think it’s wrong that someone else may love it. I don’t have to hear it.

 

[ShadowGroover]

Enhanced bass for me is a no go. Too much bass from kicks and toms, typically. Flat response with my signal above others is just right. Sometimes drums bleed through, so they are left out of my mix. This is with high sound isolation with my Iems. My rec? Try level 2

 

[el murdoque]

Enhanced bass for me is a no go. Too much bass from kicks and toms, typically. Flat response with my signal above others is just right. Sometimes drums bleed through, so they are left out of my mix. This is with high sound isolation with my Iems. My rec? Try level 2

I personally went with Level 4.

 

[ardgedee]

Bass on headphones and earphones usually feels attenuated, even when overall response is actually flat. Exaggerating the bass can help make it more tactile again (like listening through speakers), though in most headphones/earphones what that usually means is the bass becomes flabby and boomy. It's difficult to get good strong bass on earphones while still staying clean and tight and feeling balanced with the rest of the frequency range. That's why the good earphone companies make "extra bass" option 3: Costs more to make, both for the extra parts and the design effort.

 

[s0c9]

I personally went with Level 4.

Same here! Basically sonically flat but with the opportunity to boost bass. 8 drivers in mine.

In response to the OP, if the enhanced bass response from extra drivers is problematic, most digital consoles running AUX feeds for IEM’s have EQ capability as do “pro” grade IEM receivers. Plenty of boost/cut to suit opportunities.

Problematic if FOH is running your IEM mix, but most bands I work/play with have their own IEM mixer on stage and either split to, or get a feed from the House. None uses their own PA. All House/festival provided, so YMMV.

 

[BaltBass5]

It's not always about MORE bass but it may be about frequency response of the drivers.
Personally, I have used MANY IEM buds and for the past 3-4 years I've been using the UE Pro 11's which are designed for bassists/drummers. IMO they are perfect at handling frequencies associated with Kick Drum and Bass and I love the clarity and punch that they have while not being boomy or muddy. I should mention that I run my own IEM mix via Soundcraft UI and I pretty much run my bass Flat with a HPF set at about 40 KHz.

 

[Baker69]

Regarding your model 3, usually this is an IEM with multiple drivers and a better dynamic driver more suited to bass - not multiple bass drivers. Unless you go for at least this selection you’re going to hear your bass ok but it’s going to sound weak and tinny which most people won’t want. Lots of bass players go for multiple driver IEM’s such as the KZ ZS10 Pro which are really good for the money and have 5 drivers per side.

Regarding model 4, these could be high end, expensive IEM’s which are going to sound good but at that price you have to convince yourself whether it’s worth the considerable extra cost over and above model 3 IEM’s.

A lot of Bass players are happy with Shure SE215’s, they are model 1 in your list but they’re hardly entry level they are quite a respectable IEM, however as a single driver IEM I don’t find them good enough for bass guitar but our keyboard player and lead vocalist use them. I do still have a set of SE215’s as a spare, they are very comfortable but I hardly ever use them and much prefer my KZ ZS10 Pro’s.

 

[s0c9]

A lot of Bass players are happy with Shure SE215’s, they are model 1 in your list but they’re hardly entry level they are quite a respectable IEM, however as a single driver IEM I don’t find them good enough for bass guitar but our keyboard player and lead vocalist use them. I do still have a set of SE215’s as a spare, they are very comfortable but I hardly ever use them and much prefer my KZ ZS10 Pro’s.

Back in my early IEM days, BEFORE I started playing bass (other than at church), I used them with guitar and HATED them.
Being single driver, the ear fatigue on a club gig was horrendous. With the usual distortion, turn it up to hear better, more fatigue/distortion, turn it up.. vicious cycle. I wasn’t aware of the root cause back then, but single driver buds WILL cause distortion (however subtle) leading to,ear fatigue.
Think how effective a single driver PA speaker is? Why do “good” PA speakers generally have at least 2 drivers?
I now have 8-driver IEM’s that are awesome. I can boost/cut as needed, which I seldom do.

 

[waveman]

All I know is I need to be able to hear the bass. When we rehearse, it's one mix to many recievers, so a slightly heavy bass works for me so I can hear myself without an exaggerated mix for bass...as if I had my own mix. With two guitar players, they need to hear themselves well too.

Having said that, I don't want anything too exaggerated. You just have to find what works for you

I use the CCA C12 and CCA C10... for about $50, they work great

 

[baxter_x]

I use level 1 or 2. I just need IEM to hear my voice and some details in the mix.
For the rest I hear it directly from the stage as if I had earplugs. It bleeds through the IEM.
So it's a mix of both, the good news is I don't need super expensive IEM, I use cheap model.

 

[FullumMusic]

When I bought my last set of IEMs, I did try out a lot of them - and looked at even more.
One thing I did not understand is this:

Quite often, you see a lineup like this:

Model 1: One driver. Cheapest entry model.
Model 2: Multiple drivers, 1 bass, 1 middle, 1 treble. The "real" entry model.
Model 3: Same as model 2, but with more bass drivers. Marketed for drummers and bassists.
Model 4: Multiple drivers for everything. Marketed as the pro choice.

My question is about Model 3 in this regard. Why would I, as a bassist, want a pair of headphones that has more bass?
In the very first second, this sounds like a good idea. But as soon as the brain starts working on the scenario, the first thought that pops into my head is:
If the bass is properly EQ'ed to sit in the mix perfectly, and I listen back to it on a device that does more low end, it will sound too big. As a result, I will back off on my EQ device until it's perfect in my personal mix, and therefore it'll be thinned out on every other listening device that does not come with a boosted bass.
This sounds like a very bad idea to me.
I personally prefer a device that is (relatively) flat in response, but capable of pumping out loads of bass - but only when fed loads of bass.



Am I missing something here?

This is exactly why mix engineers want flat-response monitors, not "enhanced" monitors. Whatever frequency range that's "enhanced" will be louder than it actually is in the mix, so you'll pull it back, and then when played on different speakers and sound systems, there won't be enough of it.

If you have a good IEM system where everyone can get their own mix (as they should with IEM systems), you don't need any speaker magic to enhance anything. You can just adjust the mix to what you want to hear.

I can see the IEMs that emphasize low end to be useful when the IEM mix situation is less than ideal and you can't have your own monitor mix. You get [some mix] and then boost the frequencies you want to hear for yourself.

----

All that said, don't adjust your EQ based on what you're hearing in your IEMs or stage wedges. Your EQ should be adjusted for FOH tone. That's what's going to be in the mix, in the room, and what the audience hears. If the bass signal in your in-ear needs EQing, that should be done on the monitor mix coming back to you (if it's possible there... in an ideal world it would be, but live sound is never ever ever an ideal world).

This also gets a bit into the game of signal flow, and where your EQ and DI are, and if you should be touching your EQ or the sound engineer should be doing it for the room. But, i'm just thinking of a generic situation where you have some EQ either on your bass, EQ pedal, pre-amp EQ, or anywhere before the DI. You adjust your EQ for the FOH tone. Send it to the FOH, where the mix engineer EQs it for the room/mix on the board. Then the IEM mix comes back with the monitor EQ for the bass adjusted to how you need it just for the mix. There's an infinite amount of different situations with different signal chains and EQ and IEM requirements.

 

[Muttleybass]

It's not about volume, it's about efficiency. Your bottom end in your ears will sound better and not fart or clip out, like the cheap ones. It gives you a wider control range.

 

[ga_edwards]

There are drivers, and there are drivers. More drivers ≠ better sound. I've had a few KZ sets with multiple drivers, and I'm now using a considerably more expensive set of Sennheiser IE 400 Pros that have a single dynamic driver in each earpiece. They sound vastly superior.

It's kind of similar to how biamped bass rigs are largely a thing of the past, as advances in speaker and cab design have meant that it's possible to get a full-range tone without needing multiple cabs and split signals.

 

[jTrolt]

Interesting.
I've been on stage 1, 2, and as of the last couple years, stage 3. I watched my drummer roach a premium set ($6-800?), grab a set of our "level 3" grade spares as a temporary solution to get through the night. He was stunned at the quality comparison and has completely sworn off the top shelf stuff for good. Just no need for that level of expense for a great quality sound. Conversely, another player in the group dropped IEM's and went back to a live wedge after attempting a cheap, DIY grade ear mold setup on the same level 3's. A disaster that cost him the ability to enjoy a good set of IEM's and now we're stuck with a howling, screeching sh@tbox on stage again. Oh well. It's just the nature of IEM's that they're highly subjective.

The KZ10's mentioned earlier are perfectly acceptable for live sound monitoring, and we're enjoying pricing well under $100 a set as of late. I have over-sized ear canals, so I use the Comply Foam universal fit in large oval foam shape to achieve a proper seal. No special molds, no loans from the bank, and I'm enjoying a comfortable, high-quality sound on stage.

Maybe it's just me, but as long as I can get a solid seal in my ear canals, I am quite happy with most any version in regards to bass response and fidelity. I do feel the sweet spot is at level 3. With 5-8 drivers, you certainly get a clean, well defined tonality and fidelity. More than that, methinks we're just purchasing bragging rights about driver counts. I personally don't feel I need to quadruple my investment, given my happiness with the level 3's.


Again, bass response boils down to a proper ear fit. You can get a horrible, thin, tinny sound at any price point if you don't get that part right.

 

[Dbassmon]

IEM provide a very intimate audio experience. You can hear the band, every member, every singer per your desired mix. The better quality the audio coming through the monitor, the better it sounds. Having good gear is essential to making In-ear Monitoring a better way to go. If you spend some time on your mix, it can sound spectacular.

I have had entry level single driver IEM and currently have 3 drivers. Through a quality monitor board, it sounds really very good. My early experiments with cheaper monitors was not good. As with any audio, you reach a point where you have to spend much more money to incremental improvement. Do not expect entry level IEMs to be good, they are not.

 

[jTrolt]

f the bass is properly EQ'ed to sit in the mix perfectly, and I listen back to it on a device that does more low end, it will sound too big. As a result, I will back off on my EQ device until it's perfect in my personal mix, and therefore it'll be thinned out on every other listening device that does not come with a boosted bass.

Glad I re-read the OP. I'm not sure this has yet been clarified. I'll try:

Under normal circumstances of on stage IEM operations, your monitor mix is yours alone. You should only be altering your monitor sound on stage as you adjust signal to your IEM's. These adjustments should not affect FOH or other's monitor mixes on stage.

Unless you're sharing a mix due to lack of available channels or recording off your monitor channel to listen on other equipment at a later time (most unusual, but hey I guess you could...), these concerns can be dismissed.

Does that address the concern stated above?

 

[groovaholic]

If the bass is properly EQ'ed to sit in the mix perfectly, and I listen back to it on a device that does more low end, it will sound too big. As a result, I will back off on my EQ device until it's perfect in my personal mix, and therefore it'll be thinned out on every other listening device that does not come with a boosted bass.
This sounds like a very bad idea to me.

I agree with you 100% - I don't wear IEMs to hear the hype, I'm using them to hear things accurately.

IMO, the boosted and boomy sound is only for listening.
And if you're being smart/cautious with your hearing and listening at quiet levels, those boosted lows can add back a nice sense of fullness.

But for on stage?
I'm counting on an accurate rendition of what I'm sending to the PA so that I can make informed choices about my sound.

When I was using IEMs the most, I had a set of KZ AS12s - they were much flatter than their "ZS" counterparts.
They isolated well and were VERY efficient - I gave them to a drummer friend who needed something that he could hear over his kit.

What I have now are Crinnacle/Truthear Zero Red.
They aren't as loud as the AS12s (which I didn't need) but they also don't isolate quite as well (which I did need).
The AS12s extended farther on either end of the audio spectrum.

 

[GypsyBilly]

But for on stage?
I'm counting on an accurate rendition of what I'm sending to the PA so that I can make informed choices about my sound.

Exactly my problem with IEMs and a silent stage - if I complain my bass sounds 'thin,' in my ears, I'm told, "don't worry, it sounds fuller in the mains." But I depend on knowing exactly what tone I'm making for so many adjustments on the fly - not just my PU/tone settings on the bass, but my entire right hand approach (how hard, how close to bridge vs neck, etc.). I prefer an actual speaker on the floor behind me that I can hear AND feel, but I know I'm a dinosaur...

 

[Wasnex]

When I bought my last set of IEMs, I did try out a lot of them - and looked at even more.
One thing I did not understand is this:

Quite often, you see a lineup like this:

Model 1: One driver. Cheapest entry model.
Model 2: Multiple drivers, 1 bass, 1 middle, 1 treble. The "real" entry model.
Model 3: Same as model 2, but with more bass drivers. Marketed for drummers and bassists.
Model 4: Multiple drivers for everything. Marketed as the pro choice.

My question is about Model 3 in this regard. Why would I, as a bassist, want a pair of headphones that has more bass?
In the very first second, this sounds like a good idea. But as soon as the brain starts working on the scenario, the first thought that pops into my head is:
If the bass is properly EQ'ed to sit in the mix perfectly, and I listen back to it on a device that does more low end, it will sound too big. As a result, I will back off on my EQ device until it's perfect in my personal mix, and therefore it'll be thinned out on every other listening device that does not come with a boosted bass.
This sounds like a very bad idea to me.
I personally prefer a device that is (relatively) flat in response, but capable of pumping out loads of bass - but only when fed loads of bass.



Am I missing something here?

AFAIK, more bass drivers does not necessarily mean the bass has to be louder, only that it can be louder. So it could be the best choice given your stated preference.

However it's possible the designer used extra drivers to intentionally hype the bass. Some people like this and some don't.

I tend to prefer clarity and focus over fat. Years ago I bought the Starkey Tunz Trio B model. The B version has an extra driver for the lows over the regular Tunz Trio. Pretty sure I researched the purchase and chose the option that I thought would best suit my taste. There is also a Tunz Trio XB, which has more drivers and boosted bass. IMHO not interested.