A question for the IEM / Sound experts.

[mcnach]

When I bought my last set of IEMs, I did try out a lot of them - and looked at even more.
One thing I did not understand is this:

Quite often, you see a lineup like this:

Model 1: One driver. Cheapest entry model.
Model 2: Multiple drivers, 1 bass, 1 middle, 1 treble. The "real" entry model.
Model 3: Same as model 2, but with more bass drivers. Marketed for drummers and bassists.
Model 4: Multiple drivers for everything. Marketed as the pro choice.

My question is about Model 3 in this regard. Why would I, as a bassist, want a pair of headphones that has more bass?
In the very first second, this sounds like a good idea. But as soon as the brain starts working on the scenario, the first thought that pops into my head is:
If the bass is properly EQ'ed to sit in the mix perfectly, and I listen back to it on a device that does more low end, it will sound too big. As a result, I will back off on my EQ device until it's perfect in my personal mix, and therefore it'll be thinned out on every other listening device that does not come with a boosted bass.
This sounds like a very bad idea to me.
I personally prefer a device that is (relatively) flat in response, but capable of pumping out loads of bass - but only when fed loads of bass.



Am I missing something here?

I don't think it's so much that they will be bassier, but that they CAN reproduce bass strongly without distortion.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

Think of the IEM as a PA speaker in your ear.
Now consider the difference between a single speaker with a horn and 15” speaker, and that same speaker with an added subwoofer.
It doesn’t mean the low end is overpowering. It means the other speakers don’t have to work so hard to push the low frequencies.
It can be more balanced.

But yes, some IEM manufacturers do use multiple sub drivers to hype the low end.
Not every manufacturer has the same goal or client in mind.
And not everybody wants to hear the same thing.
A drummer friend swears by his dual driver entry level Shure IEMs, while a singer raves about their 12 driver super high end Westones.
Forget the number of drivers. Your ears should be the deciding factor on which IEMs you choose.

 

[Pep]

When I bought my last set of IEMs, I did try out a lot of them - and looked at even more.
One thing I did not understand is this:

Quite often, you see a lineup like this:

Model 1: One driver. Cheapest entry model.
Model 2: Multiple drivers, 1 bass, 1 middle, 1 treble. The "real" entry model.
Model 3: Same as model 2, but with more bass drivers. Marketed for drummers and bassists.
Model 4: Multiple drivers for everything. Marketed as the pro choice.

My question is about Model 3 in this regard. Why would I, as a bassist, want a pair of headphones that has more bass?
In the very first second, this sounds like a good idea. But as soon as the brain starts working on the scenario, the first thought that pops into my head is:
If the bass is properly EQ'ed to sit in the mix perfectly, and I listen back to it on a device that does more low end, it will sound too big. As a result, I will back off on my EQ device until it's perfect in my personal mix, and therefore it'll be thinned out on every other listening device that does not come with a boosted bass.
This sounds like a very bad idea to me.
I personally prefer a device that is (relatively) flat in response, but capable of pumping out loads of bass - but only when fed loads of bass.



Am I missing something here?

In my years of experience with IEMs I’ve found that example #2 can’t reproduce the bass to my liking. My bass is EQ’d In our system quite well but that doesn’t necessarily get replicated in the IEMs. Oh, I could hear the bass quite well but it was lacking low end and punch. Everything sounds better with custom-molded IEMs because they seal so well.
It wasn’t until I invested in a custom-molded set of IEMs from Alclair that
I was actually able to hear my bass nearly the same as the FOH. It also improved everything else in the mix.
You really don’t know what you’re missing until you hear it.

The Alclair Spire 6 Driver is great in every aspect and under $1000.

Spire Six Driver

Custom and Universal In-Ear Monitors and earbuds for stage musicians and vocalists, studio engineers, hi-fi music lovers and audiophiles.

alclair.com

 

[jTrolt]

Still seems to be a lot of confusion about the relationship between FOH and in ears.

In ears are for you. Period.

FOH is someone else's territory/responsibility.
Set your ears to your liking, and stop worrying about how it affects the mains. If you are doing it correctly, your adjustments to the IEM's have nothing to do with what anyone else is hearing, sending or receiving.

 

[Ronnie Pudding]

All that said, don't adjust your EQ based on what you're hearing in your IEMs or stage wedges. Your EQ should be adjusted for FOH tone. That's what's going to be in the mix, in the room, and what the audience hears. If the bass signal in your in-ear needs EQing, that should be done on the monitor mix coming back to you (if it's possible there... in an ideal world it would be, but live sound is never ever ever an ideal world).

This...

 

[tb-player]

I have used IEMs for over 10 years. My main pair is a set of Westone Custom ES60 IEMs. They have 6 balanced armature drivers per side (2 hi / 2 mid / 2 low). They have always given me a perfect representation of the sound I need to hear. And they have served their primary purpose of allowing me to play at low volumes and preserve my hearing.

I recently sent them off to be refurbished and picked up a set of $99 KZ ZARs as a backup. The KZs had 7 balanced armature drivers and one direct driver per side. The direct driver is supposed to make the bass stand out. Unfortunately, it took over. The sound was boomy and lacked any real clarity. I was able to eq my monitor mix to make it bearable. But it also meant running at a higher volume to get what I needed out of them.

People always ask, “should I spend more on my bass or my amp?” I say, spend more on protecting your hearing. A good set of high quality IEMs will make your life as a musician so much better.

 

[TonyP-]

I didn’t read the responses but here is my $.02

Find the ones that make your instrument sound like how you like to hear yourself as much as possible.

If you get custom ear plugs, clean your ears of any excessive wax first. (I’m serious).

My suggestion is not to worry about price but get the sound that works.

I went with perfect seal’s, tried all the models and the one that worked best was not the most expensive but the one that sounded more like ATH-M50s.

Capturing what you feel comfortable with is the most important.

 

[jTrolt]

I went with perfect seal’s,

Wow- those look appealing. The separate "sound bores" are a new concept to me. I imagine they carry bass mid and high frequencies separately for best delivery vs. moshing together as they travel the ear canal. I bet I'd notice the difference with those over my KZ-10s. Thanks for that info.

 

[logdrum]

I don't worry about it to much ; I either just use a Shure or the KZ10. Sometimes we worry too much about our gear here in TB, it's paralyzing

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I started with cheapie ZS7's to see if I would like them before investing in customs.

There are so many choices with customs and different companies and different models, that is really a shot in the dark. I went with #3 on your list (Alclair Spire 6's) and have been happy with them. They produce more bass and bass drum with enough headroom that they do not distort if you push them a little and the top end is smooth. I had to send them back for some servicing and am using the ZS7's as backups and the highs are harsh, the vocals sound like they're being sung through a telephone and they'll do, but I am really hoping to get my others back quickly as I miss them.

I tried using them (Alclair Spire 6's) for listening to regular recorded music, but they didn't sound good for that. I ended up buying a 3-driver set for music listening and they are much better and balanced. For live music playing, I like the extra bass capabilities.

I generally like a good amount of bass and bass drum, a lot of vocals (lead and myself for backups) and a little guitar. The customs serve as ear plugs for the drums (mainly the snare), but they still bleed through the 3 open vocal mids on stage, so all I need is some bass drum.

 

[Pep]

I started with cheapie ZS7's to see if I would like them before investing in customs.

There are so many choices with customs and different companies and different models, that is really a shot in the dark. I went with #3 on your list (Alclair Spire 6's) and have been happy with them. They produce more bass and bass drum with enough headroom that they do not distort if you push them a little and the top end is smooth. I had to send them back for some servicing and am using the ZS7's as backups and the highs are harsh, the vocals sound like they're being sung through a telephone and they'll do, but I am really hoping to get my others back quickly as I miss them.

I tried using them (Alclair Spire 6's) for listening to regular recorded music, but they didn't sound good for that. I ended up buying a 3-driver set for music listening and they are much better and balanced. For live music playing, I like the extra bass capabilities.

I generally like a good amount of bass and bass drum, a lot of vocals (lead and myself for backups) and a little guitar. The customs serve as ear plugs for the drums (mainly the snare), but they still bleed through the 3 open vocal mids on stage, so all I need is some bass drum.

What he said about the custom-molded Alclair Spire 6s. ! ! !

 

[DaveParker39]

I like the slight bass boost from units like the SE215.

 

[TonyP-]

Wow- those look appealing. The separate "sound bores" are a new concept to me. I imagine they carry bass mid and high frequencies separately for best delivery vs. moshing together as they travel the ear canal. I bet I'd notice the difference with those over my KZ-10s. Thanks for that info.

I have zero complaints, they are tight at first and a little uncomfortable…Once you get used to them its worth it.

 

[kbr]

IEMs are like speakers or headphones. Just get the set you like the sound of. I have had the opportunity to try a lot of IEMs doing FOH, and Monitor Mixing by day, bass by hobby, there are cheap IEMs that I loved and custom 4 way IEMs that were meh for me but the band loved them. Generalities that I have experienced are:
1. More drivers = more sensitive = more volume for the same input power = more hiss
2. Single driver dynamics roll of the top end. I liked it because it made cymbals less deadly. Not so great for music listening but great for live.
3. CIEM are always worth it. Not for the sound, but for the comfort and being able to just put them in without fiddling.
4. Too many drivers and they get easier to blow (I went through 3 JH16 8 driver IEMs on one tour)


All that makes it look like I hate multi driver units but the best, flattest, sometimes most musical sound I have heard has always been from the cIEMs with stupid driver counts. 8 way up to 12 way.

 

[Chris Chong]

Stay away from KZ10S. Mine went bad as unknown liquid leaked from the dynamic driver. Similar cases reported elsewhere online.

 

[s0c9]

Wow- those look appealing. The separate "sound bores" are a new concept to me. I imagine they carry bass mid and high frequencies separately for best delivery vs. moshing together as they travel the ear canal. I bet I'd notice the difference with those over my KZ-10s. Thanks for that info.

My 64Audio A8’s that I’ve had for about 6+ yrs now, have separate “sound bores”. 8 drivers with 4 bores if IIRC as they are not in front of me right now. Pristine audio and as much bass as I would ever need.
Due to small ear canals, customs are my only option. Nothing else provides the seal required to hear bass!

 

[erayser]

My custom Alclair Tours has 2 bores, but I prefer the 1 large meshed screen bore on my 64 Audio customs. My 64's are so much easier to clean, and zero chance of wax blockage like my Alclairs. I have to clean my Alclairs after every use with the IEM cleaning tool to make sure it doesn't build up wax. I've had to send my Alclair's in for deep cleaning a few times, and it's not cheap. As for my 64 Audio mesh bore... I can skip a few uses before cleaning.

I prefer to have more of a balanced/reference type IEM's. Playing live on stage, my Alclair Tours (~Model 2) are as good as my 64 Audio A12t's (maybe Model 4?) as far as monitoring my personal mix. I could push my A12t's more because it has more headroom, but since going ampless... I prefer my personal mix at lower volume. I didn't realize how loud the stage volume was when playing next to a drummer with a backline, and no IEM's. It's painful to me now... even when I'm not playing... sitting in the audience. Since I play with a bassboard, I don't need to boost my bass... but it still feels like it's loud. My personal mix has more kick drum volume over my bass volume.

At one point, I did get a ATH-M40X to play at home thinking that Over-Ear cups would get better bass tone, but it doesn't compare to any of my custom IEM's. My custom IEM's even sound better than any of my Over-Ear headphones for casual listening to music at home... gaming, and watching movies... and this is where my A12t's shine.. The wider sound stage listening is amazing. I mainly use the ATH-M40fX with the electric Roland v-drums at home.

 

[kbr]

Skullcandy Crusher Evo are worth a look for over ears lovers. They aren’t great sounding, but if you like to feel the kick drum and bass note the haptics on them are life changing. They are definitely love it or hate it but I’m in the love category. There are other headphones with haptics but to me the haptics on the Crusher Evos accurately give me the note information if that makes sense.

 

[dazmond]

I think there are better and worse versions of single/multi driver options, but the whole thing is just marketing hype to me unless they are posting frequency response graphs or something to actually compare models. A place like audiosciencereview and other review sites that actually post measurements have gone so far as to suggest that if you have a low distortion driver/s and access to eq, there is essentially no difference between sound in models. I've been using this one (different tips though) live for a few years and it's extremely neutral sounding, while being efficient enough I can dial in more bass or whatever if I want. 7Hz Salnotes Zero IEM Review I have other models that are bass heavy and I like them for music listening, but they are overwhelming trying to dial in a good monitor mix for me.

 

[gillento]

I regularly play 2 different sets:
- the "classic" Shure 535 CL
- low cost KZ ZS212 ProX

I like the bass/drums in both models, the KZ sounding flatter, the 535 more agressive, If I am not mistaken

A few weeks ago I ordered the Soundbrenner Wave IEM as their marketing was turning up quite aggressively in my social media feeds and the price was "fine".
So I got them, tried them and LIKE them!
I have no idea, where in your rating you would place them, but the low end is neither missing nor hyped (I seem to remember you have been using FA666 IEMS if I recall correctly.)