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A question to Manring or other soloist

M

Mayers

Sep 28, 2007
1,071
6
#1
I've always wondered how a soloist like Manring feel in a bass world where the main concern for 99% of bass players is to play in the "pocket". Where does he find his inspiration.

I ask that because, I'm more and more and more interested in soloist no matter the instrument ( but you guess that bass is the most important to me ) and I must say that I feel kind of lonely in my quest.
 
#2
Mike will probably tell you that a bass is capable of more than pocket playing. With that he was able to explore all the posibilities and even modify a bass to go even further (Hyperbass). It all depends on your desire to experiment, as well as progress your technique where it will aid in achieving your potential. I think if Mike were a custom car builder who knows what he would be driving around in.....for some reason the Delorian in Back to the Future comes to mind, but with more stuff.

And you're not alone. I for one enjoy soloist type adventures. I went and bought a Boss RC50 looper and have been laying down all kinds of things on it. Playing back the loops gave me more ideas and things build from there. It's more than that. Being able to play in all the modes, familiar with jazz, and always listening to things around you, not just music, will blend into your musical world and get you to create some pretty interesting stuff.
 
#4
I find my inspiration from
a) the response(the tone & feel) of the bass guitar, and
b) my background*
I don't view the bass guitar as purely an accompanying tool. I view it like an orchestral instrument, able to fit just as comfortable in a duo as a group, be it large or small, and just as capable solo. Hear any fine arts pieces performed on solo acoustic upright lately?
When most view bass guitar, they think of rock music. If you listen to fine arts, latin or folk, you realize how naive it is to see the bass guitar as an accompanying only tool.

*trombone in school band, piano in college & coming from a musical family(mother played piano & organ for church & school, sister a music major with piano as primary instrument & brother performed Gershwin & ragtime on piano), and hanging around the areas best drum & guitar instructors.
 
#6
Mayers said:
I've always wondered how a soloist like Manring feel in a bass world where the main concern for 99% of bass players is to play in the "pocket". Where does he find his inspiration.

I ask that because, I'm more and more and more interested in soloist no matter the instrument ( but you guess that bass is the most important to me ) and I must say that I feel kind of lonely in my quest.
Click to expand...
I am in a band but I still write things on bass for myself. Solo style pieces. Thats the thing for me It just depends on the mood I'm in. Players inspire me to learn new techiques. My solo stuff would be more along the lines of stu hamm/victor wooten. Tap and slap. Harmonic chord stuff. In a hard rock band so I try implement this into the band also but it's hard to get certain things in lick double hand tap because it's designed more for solos then to be in songs. Hope I explained myself well I tend to ramble sometimes. haha
 
#7
Hello,

one of the hardest things to do when moving from a playing exclusively in bands to experimenting with solo/experimental playing is to separate out the instrument from the function. The functional bass component in a particular piece/band/genre/idiom is something that can be filled by all kinds of different instruments - anything capable of the frequency/tone/combination of notes and rhythms required.

And most of technical practice and focus - if we grow up playing in bands - is around filling that roll on the bass guitar. But it's not a roll that is specific to the instrument, neither is it necessarily what any particular bass guitar is best adapted for.

So, in mentally extracting the range of sounds, techniques, ways of processing and contextualising the bass guitar from that perception of its role, we can start to mess with what's possible given its specific set of physical characteristics.

And we discover that bass is a quite distinct and beautiful chordal instrument, that melodies on the bass can work beautifully, that a lot of techniques thought of as normal guitar techniques actually transfer nicely over to bass but give somewhat different results given the scale length and string guage, that the sound of a bass can really lend itself to be processed and layered (hence my own focus on looping and layering bass sounds - the instrument seems to be crying out for it).

it's a bit of a struggle to get our heads round that, but once we do, we can then harness that understanding of the physical possibilities of the instrument to whatever music inspires us, regardless of instrument. And thus take our cues from singers, piano players, orchestras, bands, harpists, guitarists, whoever... and seek to make beautiful music that soundtracks the world, rather than clever **** that impresses other bass players :)

Steve
www.stevelawson.net
 
#8
Speaking as a guy who has always prided himself as being a "pocket player", I'd say this is really a matter of range of the timbre. Look at Manring: When he does his interesting work, he's playing up high, more in the basic range of a cello than a bass, right? One *could* make the argument that what he should be playing "electric cello" (is there such thing) or Piccolo bass... And, when he's doing his soloing, he basically is. I saw him do a demo at a NAMM show about... 6/7 years ago, standing not 4 feet from him, and he was doing the ZANY harmonic/pinch harmonic/etc pattern (using what I think was a boomerang) and soloing over it. It was very cool - but it's just not something that I, or many other bassists, can do.

I've always figured that if you want to be a "soloist", you should play guitar or keys. If you want to be part of the support team, play bass or drums. But that's just me.
 
#9
BigOldHarry said:
I've always figured that if you want to be a "soloist", you should play guitar or keys. If you want to be part of the support team, play bass or drums. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

Hi Harry,

that's I guess what I was getting at - you're drawing your conclusions about the suitability of the instrument for a purpose from its traditional role in pop/rock music.

But the sound of a bass playing solo is nothing at all like a guitar or piano - the set of parameters you're working with are very different, the option to go from very low to VERY high with the range of timbres that the bass covers is unique to the instrument.

Certainly, I can't even begin to imagine anyone being able to cover Michael's music on anything but his exact combination of instruments - there's no way you could take a piece like Selene or The Enormous Room and replicate it on guitar or piano. You could certainly do an arrangement of the music, but it wouldn't sound anything like the bass version, suggesting that the bass as a solo instrument is a completely different beast to any other instrument...

However, what makes it even harder to make that distinction is the number of bassists who do seem to carry over all the technical and sonic baggage from their 'day job' as a band/groove player to their solo playing. They fail to take their inspiration for playing melodies from people who play great melodies, instead getting trapped by the conventions of the instrument, and trying to stretch those parameters to be interesting enough as a solo vehicle. And that rarely works... The most interesting solo performers on bass guitar are invariably those who've sought to reimagine the harmonic, tonal and technical language of the instrument to best realise the music they hear in their heads :)

Steve
www.stevelawson.net
 
#10
Steve Lawson said:
The most interesting solo performers on bass guitar are invariably those who've sought to reimagine the harmonic, tonal and technical language of the instrument to best realise the music they hear in their heads :)

Steve
www.stevelawson.net
Click to expand...

Steve, et. al,
That really is the crux. I know that Jaco references are a bit stale or maybe predictable, but bear with this for a sec:

I am of that generation of players that is just old enough to have experienced a lot of "pre-Jaco" music, and then had to get their heads around something very different about this skinny guy from Florida. I have always felt that you could sum up the approach very simply: don't allow yourself to be limited by the bass clef and the traditional role of the bass. I know from a few reliable secondhand sources (since i never met Jaco to ask him) like Bob Moses and Mike Stern, that Jaco was very comfortable in grand staff or treble clef. As a student and as a pro he got a real charge out of playing the same etudes and test pieces that sax, piano, or trumpet players were being judged with. He wasn't waiting around for bass clef versions of the Parker Omnibus to become available, for example.

So if you want to go into the melodic and harmonic territory of traditional lead voice instruments, go there! You have a very capable polyphonic and chromatic instrument in your hands ;)
 
#11
Each instrument is but a tool to create with. When we move past our (or others) preconception of what an instrument should play it frees us up to what a musician can play.

It is not about the instrument, it is about the instrumentalist

Mike Dimin
Author, "The Art of Solo Bass"
 
#14
BigOldHarry said:
Speaking as a guy who has always prided himself as being a "pocket player", I'd say this is really a matter of range of the timbre. Look at Manring: When he does his interesting work, he's playing up high, more in the basic range of a cello than a bass, right? One *could* make the argument that what he should be playing "electric cello" (is there such thing) or Piccolo bass... And, when he's doing his soloing, he basically is. I saw him do a demo at a NAMM show about... 6/7 years ago, standing not 4 feet from him, and he was doing the ZANY harmonic/pinch harmonic/etc pattern (using what I think was a boomerang) and soloing over it. It was very cool - but it's just not something that I, or many other bassists, can do.

I've always figured that if you want to be a "soloist", you should play guitar or keys. If you want to be part of the support team, play bass or drums. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

I did some college year in music so I played other instrument beside bass and upright. I'm more of a jazz/metal/classical player way before I went to college. In those type of music bass can take flag and run with it.

I just think bass has a voice like every other instrument ... there is a lot of of upright solo piece in classical music why not on the electric ???
 
#15
fretlessrock said:
Steve, et. al,
That really is the crux. I know that Jaco references are a bit stale or maybe predictable, but bear with this for a sec:

I am of that generation of players that is just old enough to have experienced a lot of "pre-Jaco" music, and then had to get their heads around something very different about this skinny guy from Florida. I have always felt that you could sum up the approach very simply: don't allow yourself to be limited by the bass clef and the traditional role of the bass. I know from a few reliable secondhand sources (since i never met Jaco to ask him) like Bob Moses and Mike Stern, that Jaco was very comfortable in grand staff or treble clef. As a student and as a pro he got a real charge out of playing the same etudes and test pieces that sax, piano, or trumpet players were being judged with. He wasn't waiting around for bass clef versions of the Parker Omnibus to become available, for example.

So if you want to go into the melodic and harmonic territory of traditional lead voice instruments, go there! You have a very capable polyphonic and chromatic instrument in your hands ;)
Click to expand...

You are right, it really helps to be able to read in many clef. Last summer I learn some classical guitar on my 6 strings bass. Very fun to do.
 
#17
BigOldHarry said:
I've always figured that if you want to be a "soloist", you should play guitar or keys. If you want to be part of the support team, play bass or drums. But that's just me.
Click to expand...

from what i know about michael manring, and keep in mind that he has been a huge inspiration to me, i don't think he's trying to make a politics-esque polarizing statement with the way he plays. i think it was a natural evolution of his talent, skill, and general outlook on music. he enjoys playing that way, and he has the ability to pull it off amazingly well. he's not concerned with the "old school" mentalities about bass. in fact, i can't think of very many great players who were worried about being "old school" in their own time. people with true talent and vision usually try to push forward, and some go further than others. manring has gone pretty far, but i don't think he looks down on anyone who chooses to play in a more traditional way.
 
#18
IronLung1986 said:
from what i know about michael manring, and keep in mind that he has been a huge inspiration to me, i don't think he's trying to make a politics-esque polarizing statement with the way he plays. i think it was a natural evolution of his talent, skill, and general outlook on music. he enjoys playing that way, and he has the ability to pull it off amazingly well.
Click to expand...

+1
 
#19
Mayers said:
I did some college year in music so I played other instrument beside bass and upright. I'm more of a jazz/metal/classical player way before I went to college. In those type of music bass can take flag and run with it.

I just think bass has a voice like every other instrument ... there is a lot of of upright solo piece in classical music why not on the electric ???
Click to expand...

There have been quite a few electric bass players who ave requested my arrangements for college admissions (of course I always comply)

Mike
 
#20
Thanks for the thoughtful discussion and very kind words, guys.

I feel inspired inspired by so many things in life it's hard to come up with a list. I certainly draw a lot of inspiration from the amazing music that Steve, Mike and other solo bassists are making these days. There are several solo traditions on other instruments that are a big inspiration as well, such as jazz guitar and piano, fingerstyle acoustic guitar, chamber music and Carnatic percussion. But as Steve pointed out, if your focus is on making good music more than on the specific means you choose for it, then I think it's likely you'll find inspiration everywhere.

One of the things I love about the bass is that it can be played in so many ways and I enjoy "pocket" playing as much as solo work. While I appreciate the reasoning behind the sentiment that bass guitar isn't an appropriate instrument for solo performance -- at least not to the extent of say, the piano or guitar, I've just never quite seen it that way. I love to play piano and have played it for longer than I've played bass, but when I pick up my bass I just see much more possibility of the kind that appeals to me than when I sit down at the keyboard or any other instrument I've tried. I realize that many people have the opposite experience and I'm thankful to be able to enjoy and be inspired by the visions and creativity of folks who excel on those instruments, but for me the bass is home.
 

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