A stupid signal chain question

[gtirard]

I currently play with Capo and a bass chorus:
Bass -> Capo -> Chorus -> amp

My guitarist tells me that it would sound better if I inserted the chorus pedal in the effect loop of the Capo, he tried to explain why, but I don't understand.

Bass -> Capo -> amp
Capo <-> chorus

Do you think he's right?

[EDIT]
I know some of you will reply "why don't you try and use your ears?".
I know.
I will.
But I would just like to understand the theory.
Thanx

 

[lomo]

I think he's mistaken. My guess, without hearing it, is that it'll make no sig diff.

 

[Derek Williams]

The only reason to use the post-preamp loop on the Capo is to put other effects before the DI. If you aren't using the DI there will be no effect.

On the other hand, if you do want the option of going direct then using the loop would be useful so you can include your chorus. It's just not going to have any other effect on your sound.

 

[gtirard]

The only reason to use the post-preamp loop on the Capo is to put other effects before the DI. If you aren't using the DI there will be no effect.

On the other hand, if you do want the option of going direct then using the loop would be useful so you can include your chorus. It's just not going to have any other effect on your sound.

I get it. Makes sense if I want to send my signal to the FOH using the DI out of the Capo, and have the chorus after Capo's dirt.

 

[bassbrad]

Effect placement in a signal chain does matter as they generally have different sounds depending on that placement. There is not a definitive right or wrong just the desired result, I generally like the option of trying each variable to find which is most pleasing. Chorus before or after dirt or preamp is very different.

 

[Topkat13]

There are no stupid questions...it's true.

 

[themickster]

Bass -> Capo -> amp
Capo <-> chorus

No. He's saying bass > Capo > chorus > Capo > amp

 

[corvette_br]

Not stupid at all.

 

[mrcbass]

I know some of you will reply "why don't you try and use your ears?".

Sorry but this is the appropriate response. No amount of science or theory will make it better to just not play with the order. With only two pedals, you'll not need too much time to play with things. Science and theory MAY help give you a starting point (assuming you're dancing with more pedals).

FWIW, I've found no usefulness in using the effects loop. But that's just ME.

 

[Le Daniele]

Not a stupid question at all:

FX Loops are usually line level so if the chorus pedal does not have a lot of headroom (like for example, most analog pedals) it will overdrive the signal. For digital pedals or rack gear it should be ok (and probably best) to use the fx loop, but it's not a rule and it will depend on the pedal/amp combination.

The answer will also depend on if you're planning to rely on the amp's overdrive:

If yes, you might want to use the fx loop (assuming the pedal can handle line level signals) because chorus sounds usually best after distortion (still debatable as most rock players don't really care and they just go straight in front of a cranked SVT).

If you play mostly clean, then you can use the pedal in whatever way it's more comfortable for you because it won't make much difference and you will just loose the flexibility of switching your pedal on and off with your feet or spend money on extra cable.

 

[mexicanyella]

I haven’t spent much time with bass effects other than comp and dirt, but one thing I encountered in my former guitar days, which might apply to OP’s situation:

if you are getting some dirt out of the Capo, the extra overtones present in the dirtied up signal might do cool, or at least different, things in a time-based effect like chorus.

I used to have a phase shifter and a chorus that sounded way more interesting after my Rat 2 and in front of it. Something to listen for while testing.

 

[Derek Williams]

Not a stupid question at all:

FX Loops are usually line level so if the chorus pedal does not have a lot of headroom (like for example, most analog pedals) it will overdrive the signal. For digital pedals or rack gear it should be ok (and probably best) to use the fx loop, but it's not a rule and it will depend on the pedal/amp combination.

The answer will also depend on if you're planning to rely on the amp's overdrive:

If yes, you might want to use the fx loop (assuming the pedal can handle line level signals) because chorus sounds usually best after distortion (still debatable as most rock players don't really care and they just go straight in front of a cranked SVT).

If you play mostly clean, then you can use the pedal in whatever way it's more comfortable for you because it won't make much difference and you will just loose the flexibility of switching your pedal on and off with your feet or spend money on extra cable.

We aren’t talking about an amp FX loop here. The amp has nothing to do with it. It’s a preamp with a loop.

 

[Derek Williams]

Sorry but this is the appropriate response. No amount of science or theory will make it better to just not play with the order. With only two pedals, you'll not need too much time to play with things. Science and theory MAY help give you a starting point (assuming you're dancing with more pedals).

FWIW, I've found no usefulness in using the effects loop. But that's just ME.

It isn’t a matter of order, the order would stay the same if the loop was used or not.

 

[Le Daniele]

It isn’t a matter of order, the order would stay the same if the loop was used or not.

Sorry about that, I somehow understood it was an amp. In this case, you're absolutely right, there's no purpose on using the fx loop on this pedal if using the preamp out, other that wasting cable of course.

 

[Killing Floor]

Try both ways. Pick the way you like best.

 

[40Hz]

IIRC the effects loop on a Capo is a parallel rather than a serial loop. So whatever is plugged into it is receiving the same signal as what the input jack is seeing rather than the output coming off the preamp.

So there might be some benefit (depending on what you prefer for your chorused sound) by placing the chorus in the effects loop since it’d be getting a clean signal to work with rather than a signal that’s potentially had distortion applied to it.

Either way it wouldn’t hurt to try it both ways and see which sounds better to your ears.

 

[Derek Williams]

IIRC the effects loop on a Capo is a parallel rather than a serial loop. So whatever is plugged into it is receiving the same signal as what the input jack is seeing rather than the output coming off the preamp.

So there might be some benefit (depending on what you prefer for your chorused sound) by placing the chorus in the effects loop since it’d be getting a clean signal to work with rather than a signal that’s potentially had distortion applied to it.

Either way it wouldn’t hurt to try it both ways and see which sounds better to your ears.

There are 2 loops. One is definitely after the preamp.

 

[el murdoque]

It's quite easy. A guitarist is taught that a chorus goes into the FX loop.
The reason behind that is simple - you want the dirt of the amplifiers preamp first and add chorus to that - and that is exactly what a guitar amp FX loop is for.

Your average guitar player has surprisingly little technical understanding. When you teach them that they should put their chorus into the FX loop of their amp because of the aforementioned reasons, their little guitarist brains filter the information to make it easier to remember and what actually gets written on the hard drive is "Chorus belongs into FX loop".

If your Capo acts as preamp (and does the saturation/dirt) and your chorus comes after that and the actual amp is further down the line, you're doing exactly that - everything between capo and amp is in the "Capo's FX loop".

 

[40Hz]

There are 2 loops. One is definitely after the preamp.

If that’s the case then the parallel loop would be the one to try IMO.

 

[Derek Williams]

If that’s the case then the parallel loop would be the one to try IMO.

It would require some other summing pedal to work, as the pre-preamp loop either works as a normal loop or a parallel output (as soon as you plug into the loop return it switches to a serial loop). It is meant as an FX loop that allows you to place effects after the input buffer and DI, but before the preamp.