About that vintage tone...

[Coolhandjjl]

I'm a big fan of those strings, I have a beautifully broken in set that came on my '66 P and another on a passive J.

I do believe they are made by LaBella to Sadowsky specs, though.

I was using GHS Precision Flats. I still like the GHS. The have a more pronounced attack than the Sadowskys, while the Sadowskys also seem to have a meatier bottom end.

Label reads 'Created by Roger Sadowsky and Richard Cocco of E & O Mari' Perhaps they are subbing out the actual construction to the Labella factory. Many string manufacturers sell their unused capacity to other brands to keep their own factory and personnel humming along.

Most bike frames today are made by Giant even though you are buying a Trek, or whatever. Is it a Giant frame? No. It is merely Trek's design fabricated in Giant's factory. Same for microchips, inkjet printers, cell phones, lots of things today.

A P bass with old flats and high action is a good place to start, but none of these are necessary.

First time I read about action. Action meaning just higher off the fretboard with the pups raised up accordingly, or higher off both the fretboard and the pups?

 

[TTPbass1]

Always remember 60% of your tone is in your hands. Spend time trying to capture that sound. Also making sure the bass is setup correctly is a major bonus. A well setup squire will play and sound better then a badly set up US bass.

I love my 72' Pbass, in the mix and nothing blends better with the kick drum. Out of the mix not so much but I have my jazz bass for that!

For getting that vintage tone, practice, think Motown, Jackson five, listen to how those players hold the notes and hit the strings. Work on hand position moving your plucking hand closer to the neck and using your thumb. Sure you can spend tons on gear and I have but 60-80% of your tone is in your hands. Finally keep the tone rolled back 50% min

Couldn't agree more... Tone is definitely in the hands of the player

 

[One Drop]

I was using GHS Precision Flats. I still like the GHS. The have a more pronounced attack than the Sadowskys, while the Sadowskys also seem to have a meatier bottom end.

Label reads 'Created by Roger Sadowsky and Richard Cocco of E & O Mari' Perhaps they are subbing out the actual construction to the Labella factory. Many string manufacturers sell their unused capacity to other brands to keep their own factory and personnel humming along.

Most bike frames today are made by Giant even though you are buying a Trek, or whatever. Is it a Giant frame? No. It is merely Trek's design fabricated in Giant's factory. Same for microchips, inkjet printers, cell phones, lots of things today.



First time I read about action. Action meaning just higher off the fretboard with the pups raised up accordingly, or higher off both the fretboard and the pups?

Roger himself said on a few occasions that LaBella (E&O Mari is the name of the company that makes the Labella brand strings) makes them and always did. It makes sense that they were developed with Cocco's input.

I believe his rounds are made by another string company, IIRC R. Cocco, which has some historical relation to the Coccos of EO Mari if I'm not mistaken.

 

[okcrum]

Vintage tone (or any great bass tone) is often shocking when isolated from the mix.

 

[Moe Monsarrat]

Most YouTube videos purporting to show us how a certain bass sounds usually feature a guy slapping with round wound strings. This tells me exactly zero about how it would sound if I played it. You can tell more about the player than the bass.

 

[mpdd]

i think when you play a 70s gibson grabber with a microphonic pickup it's hard not to get a vintage tone, haven't had that happen with a p bass though

 

[Marko 1]

Am I a bad person for not caring about reproducing that “vintage” tone?

I/we play variety, and for the old songs, I’m happy with a more-modern P tone with rounds, just toned down a bit.

You can hear the bass a bit more clearly, as well, and I think that’s just fine.

 

[PJ Muzikmansky]

A good example of a vintage tone machine. mmm hmm

The D string is slightly out of tune with the track....5 cents sharp

 

[sxaxsx]

Hi, how do you know that ? I don't see any foam ??

Hmm... I might be on crack, I wrote that late last night, and watching the one video again I don't see foam on the redish bass anymore. It certainly sounds like foam though. The white P has the vintage covers so I was assuming they had the foam, but I could be wrong about that one too.
In any case, the flats with muted strings sound is what you seem to like. I say get some flats, and also experiment with foam and also with just rolling off the tone and see which combination you like. Rolling off tone is free, foam is all but free also, so you got nothing to lose.

 

[deeruss]

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the tone you can get out a new MIA Fender P bass. If you are specifically looking for that vintage tone, flats are a good start and you can always use the passive tone control to take out the treble until the strings are becoming naturally 'dull'. I recently did a P bass shootout, starting with a 1964 Precision that has very old flats, but as you can hear from the sound clips even in that case you can use the tone control to shape the 'darkenss' of the tone:

Fender Precision 1964 Sound Clips

Thank you, the 1964 sounds delicious.

 

[Grant Lockwood]

My advise buy the American Pbass!!! I own a 72' it sounds great but the new ones and I know I will get a tone of flack for this. The new ones are made better!! I am currently drooling over the American nitro finish basses Guitar Center is selling or I may get a g&l lb 100.

 

[Guiseppe]

I'm surprised the obvious hasn't been brought up more? FOAM MUTE! Every video that you said you like (so not the first one) involved a foam mute, except the last one which the guy was palm muting.
The sound you are looking for is flats with a foam mute stuck under the strings.

I have to admit I was floored by the difference foam makes. I have played 38 years and can't believe I never tried this on any of my basses!

 

[40Hz]

Strings, amp settings, and how you play are major factors. The biggest challenge for some people is to (to put it politely) control their enthusiasm.

If your non-fretting hand comes down on the strings like a claw hammer weilded by an orangutan, most basses will bark pretty harshly. On a PBass, it's particularly unpleasant sounding due to that punchy pickup.

Not to say you can't dig in. But some players don't understand the concept of "too much of a good thing." Not surprising considering many players grew up learning to like "string clank" and think beating on a bass is the best way (as opposed to merely one of the ways) to play it. The current obsession with all things "slap," which is the modern bassist's answer to SSE (speed shred envy) also doesn't help.

Play it respectfully and a PBass will respond in deep round voice. Caress it and it will purr. Pound on it a little too hard and it will yelp like a kicked dog. It's largely in the touch. Or so it goes from my experience. Some people sound like crap no matter what they're playing. Others can pull music and tone out of something most people would regard as a piece of junk.

There are clunker PBasses out there. I owned one. The most beautiful looking PBass I ever saw. But it resisted all attempts to rehabilitate it. And nobody who tried it could make it sound like anything other than the dead brick it was. It took me 10 years of trying everything before I gave up and dumped it as a trade-in.

Fortunately those lemons are pretty rare.

For a smooth deep bass sound get a good set of strings (GHS pressurewounds are a good choice for a PB if you don't like flats or you want a little growl now and then) and pay attention to your plucking/pick hand. In a very short time you should be hearing what Leo Fender was hearing in his head when he designed the thing: BASS! Oh yeah! Ooooh yeah...

 

[FirewalZ]

Strings, amp settings, and how you play are major factors. The biggest challenge for some people is to (to put it politely) control their enthusiasm.

If your non-fretting hand comes down on the strings like a claw hammer weilded by an orangutan, most basses will bark pretty harshly. On a PBass, it's particularly unpleasant sounding due to that punchy pickup.

Not to say you can't dig in. But some players don't understand the concept of "too much of a good thing." Not surprising considering many players grew up learning to like "string clank" and think beating on a bass is the best way (as opposed to merely one of the ways) to play it. The current obsession with all things "slap," which is the modern bassist's answer to SSE (speed shred envy) also doesn't help.

Play it respectfully and a PBass will respond in deep round voice. Caress it and it will purr. Pound on it a little too hard and it will yelp like a kicked dog. It's largely in the touch. Or so it goes from my experience. Some people sound like crap no matter what they're playing. Others can pull music and tone out of something most people would regard as a piece of junk.

There are clunker PBasses out there. I owned one. The most beautiful looking PBass I ever saw. But it resisted all attempts to rehabilitate it. And nobody who tried it could make it sound like anything other than the dead brick it was. It took me 10 years of trying everything before I gave up and dumped it as a trade-in.

Fortunately those lemons are pretty rare.

For a smooth deep bass sound get a good set of strings (GHS pressurewounds are a good choice for a PB if you don't like flats or you want a little growl now and then) and pay attention to your plucking/pick hand. In a very short time you should be hearing what Leo Fender was hearing in his head when he designed the thing: BASS! Oh yeah! Ooooh yeah...

+1 to this.....I now have what is my first P bass, I am learning to relax my right plucking hand and not be so heavy handed with it but more dynamic. In addition the subtle art of the tone knob. I agree with everything you said, I really started to develop my playing in the late 80's/early 90's, and developed a heavy handed, string snap and a more forceful touch.
I returned to the bass again last year after several years off and have been working on changing my approach and style, a bit softer with a lighter and more dynamic right hand. Also switching to P bass and really focusing on the classic sound and feel and simplifying my style. I'm discovering that for being such a simple instrument, you really can get a lot out of a good P bass with the proper approach and hand techniques.

 

[peterkidd]

Remember, the tortoise is 90% in the hands.....

 

[TMARK]

My advise buy the American Pbass!!! I own a 72' it sounds great but the new ones and I know I will get a tone of flack for this. The new ones are made better!! I am currently drooling over the American nitro finish basses Guitar Center is selling or I may get a g&l lb 100.

I second the American Standard P. Just play it first before buying. They are made well, and unlike a vintage P, you can gig it without worrying about dings and humidity etc.

Slap some LaBellas on it, get some foam. The stock pickup is not ideal but works just fine with the tone knob turned down. Then look at your amp. That is another discussion entirely, but Ampeg and Fender tube amps do the trick.

The rest is technique. Woodshed it for a while. Pay attention to both hands.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

The D string is slightly out of tune with the track....5 cents sharp

That just adds to the vintage vibe given the approximate tuning on many old recordings!

 

[40Hz]

I always wonder how much of the "vintage" sound has to do with the recording equipment and technique of that era, any idea somebody?

A fairly good deal to be honest. When mastering in analog for LPs, it was absolutely critical to sit on levels hard. That's because the cutter for the vinyl couldn't cope with high signal levels or transients. It would skip just like the needle on a record player would. Except when the cutter did that, the master would be ruined. So recorded bass was always heavily compressed.

Tube amps also subtly compress the signal. When pumped afterwards through a 15" speaker in a ported bass reflex enclosure, an old style electric bass will get that tubby round sound you don't get with today's modern fuller frequency spectrum amps or the multi 10" speaker cabs bass ususlly gets delivered through these days.

When speaking of vintage sound, most people are thinking the sound of a Precision Bass strung with old flats played through a Fender Bassman or Ampeg B-15 that was recorded with an analog console to multitrack tape for mastering onto a vinyl LP.

It all adds up to that "vintage" tone.

You can emulate it with modern equipment. And sometimes come very close. But that sound is the product of an era. The playing techniques, the equipment used, the underlying technology, the musical tastes - and even (dare I say?) the esthetics of playing bass were very different than those of today.

Times have changed. And so has the sound of bass.

 

[JimmyM]

A fairly good deal to be honest. When mastering in analog for LPs, it was absolutely critical to sit on levels hard. That's because the cutter for the vinyl couldn't cope with high signal levels or transients. It would skip just like the needle on a record player would. Except when the cutter did that, the master would be ruined. So recorded bass was always heavily compressed.

Not always. Sometimes it was just cut with the levels reduced. BTW, a lot of folks think of Jamerson's sound as highly compressed, but the engineer for those classic Motown session says no. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[JimmyM]

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