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Accessible Jazz vs "Real" Jazz

#141
Jeff Scott said:
Was this before or after you got married? ;)

Was Basie still a round at that time?

I saw the CBO, with Basie, in 1982. :bassist:
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Which time? :laugh: No it was after and before, I got married when I was a kid for a short period of time at nineteen, ended very quickly, then got married at fifty and here I am! Oh, that thing with the 'love of my life' was right after my first very short marriage ended during my twenties, she wasn't the reason.

No, I think he had died a few years before, Frank foster was leading the band when I saw them. I want to say the late 80's, early 90's.

The band was REALLY good, talk about dynamics, the drummer was excellent, they blew me away, it was in a club called The El Morocco in Worcester, Mass.
 
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#150
Paul New said:
which is out of tune, piano or bass?
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Yes.

It’s funny - one recording it sounded like piano, the other one it sounded like the bass.

Same dang note in both. On the first one it really did feel like the piano tuner should have been fired, but it seemed like the bass was out on the second - at least the one time I listened to it before I had enough. :roflmao:

The fact that it shows up in both tells me it was 100% intentional.
 
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#151
g-dude said:
Yes.

It’s funny - one recording it sounded like piano, the other one it sounded like the bass.

Same dang note in both. On the first one it really did feel like the piano tuner should have been fired, but it seemed like the bass was out on the second - at least the one time I listened to it before I had enough. :roflmao:

The fact that it shows up in both tells me it was 100% intentional.
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Well, you didn’t even get to hear the solos. I’m sorry. Kenny Kirkland’s (RIP) was great but Garrett’s is beyond words. To me, anyway. But I am starting to remind myself of the guys back in the day who wanted everybody to listen to Freebird on headphones.
 
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#152
I found that becoming part of a real scene is the best way to understand a music that seems to be blocking you out. I landed in NYC in ‘99 and immediately started studying with William Parker and found myself recording with Daniel Carter and Sabeen. I did not know what I was doing there. I merely was told to show up and I did and gave everything I had. I started to listen to all the downtown players and understand what was happening. Ultimately I got called on other gigs and fell out of the scene. Personally I didn’t want to carry that torch as it seemed to me to be a complete culture and philosophy. I loved so many more conventional, even dorky (Irish) music and felt that I couldn’t give it all up to be a free improviser 24/7. I did learn how to listen and appreciate though and it did me a lot of good.
 
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#154
Jason Sypher said:
I found that becoming part of a real scene is the best way to understand a music that seems to be blocking you out. I landed in NYC in ‘99 and immediately started studying with William Parker and found myself recording with Daniel Carter and Sabeen. I did not know what I was doing there. I merely was told to show up and I did and gave everything I had. I started to listen to all the downtown players and understand what was happening. Ultimately I got called on other gigs and fell out of the scene. Personally I didn’t want to carry that torch as it seemed to me to be a complete culture and philosophy. I loved so many more conventional, even dorky (Irish) music and felt that I couldn’t give it all up to be a free improviser 24/7. I did learn how to listen and appreciate though and it did me a lot of good.
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You have had quite the range of experience! Mike Compton to Daniel Carter!
 
#155
Lance Bunyon said:
LoL. Miles was also a world renowned curmudgeon and nightmare of a bandleader.
It's no coincidence Miles sidemen left and started their own bands. Purportedly a nightmare to work for.
The "best" creators of music are often the most fascist about it. Miles. Zappa. James Brown. Becker and Fagen.
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ha ha, that's nonsence. Story telling. His musicians left after average time of many years to form groups of their own because it was their duty to their careers and path to do so. Coltrane had to leave. The whole 60s quintet had to leave. Their slow replacements Dave Holland, Jack deJohnette, Chick, all the same. Some lasted a season or two, like George Coleman before Wayne joined the band, but it the album he did with Miles made his career. Micheal Henderson was a necessary evolution for Miles' new music and that freed up Holland to have a huge career including making "Conference of the Birds"...
Miles was a delight and an enigma, just like any Gemini. A lot was for fun, to see how you would react. He was also So revered that it put him in a position, you know? People were watching his every move. He was also geununly aware of everything, like who is a poser. He actually just wanted his musicians to be powerfully creative and say something new.

He Was a person of his era who had insecurities he made up for by being tough, and he was true to his vision and millitant about it, which was being a boss, and yes, he did ask Francis Farmer his wife to quit the first cast of West Side Story, because he wasn't "woke" in the most basic sense, he was jealous and abusive to her and Not a modern person.

Probably most of his musicians lasted 6 years, but some like Jack DeJohnette were friends before and after their stint in the band. Al Foster lasted longer than any drummer I suppose. There are Many interviews about what it was like being in Miles' bands.
 
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#156
Lance Bunyon said:
What you see as the American song book, I see as pop standards from the 30s through 50s that jazz cats improvised on. Those are jazz bands riffing on what was the pop music of the day.
What I consider jazz...is a tune penned by woody shaw or John Coltrane and riffed on by jazz cats.
The reason "Rose Room" or "all the things you are" are not cool is because they are 80 years out of fashion.
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"Now some folks will tell you, Lester Young he's out of style -
Out of STYLE???!???!!?!?"

- Rahsaan Roland Kirk, Goodbye Pork Pie Hat (the good version, not Joni's)

Come over here and I'll let Rahsaan go upside your head. When he's done with you I'll turn you over to David Murray and Duke.
 
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#157
I still note that not a single person in this thread has posted a link to any music made before about 1957. Wake up, folks; that 40 years of recorded jazz before Kind of Blue, Giant Steps, and the Brown-Roach Sextet didn't just disappear.

If you want to know something about free jazz, modal jazz, and fusion jazz, you need to listen to what those musicians started out playing, which is bebop and hard bop; and if you want to get the bop styles, you need to listen to what those musicians started out playing, which is swing and "trad" jazz.

I'll say it again, if you want to claim that Fats or Art or Roy E. or Benny or Bix or Louis (Hayes, Armstrong, or Prima) or Hawk or Prez or Rabbit or Kid Ory "isn't jazz", you'll be contradicting some people who might have known what they were talking about: guys like Diz Bird Trane Dex Pepper (Adams or Art) McCoy Elvin Mingus Rahsaan and so on, how many names do you want me to list of well-known later jazz players - some of them working in very abstract styles - who repeatedly expressed their debts to and love of the work of the elders who came before.
 
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#159
turf3 said:
I still note that not a single person in this thread has posted a link to any music made before about 1957. Wake up, folks; that 40 years of recorded jazz before Kind of Blue, Giant Steps, and the Brown-Roach Sextet didn't just disappear.

If you want to know something about free jazz, modal jazz, and fusion jazz, you need to listen to what those musicians started out playing, which is bebop and hard bop; and if you want to get the bop styles, you need to listen to what those musicians started out playing, which is swing and "trad" jazz.

I'll say it again, if you want to claim that Fats or Art or Roy E. or Benny or Bix or Louis (Hayes, Armstrong, or Prima) or Hawk or Prez or Rabbit or Kid Ory "isn't jazz", you'll be contradicting some people who might have known what they were talking about: guys like Diz Bird Trane Dex Pepper (Adams or Art) McCoy Elvin Mingus Rahsaan and so on, how many names do you want me to list of well-known later jazz players - some of them working in very abstract styles - who repeatedly expressed their debts to and love of the work of the elders who came before.
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Most "swing" was definitively not jazz. Glen miller? Not jazz. Count Basie? Jazz. Benny Goodman...some real jazz. Duke Ellington was jazz.

If the entire tune is on the chart even the solo is written out...it's not jazz.
 

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