Acme Audio Motown DI

[jnewmark]

I know this DI has been mentioned here and there in this forum, but I'm specifically wondering if any of you use it in the studio, and what your take is on its tone, where you set the attenuator, or if you just go direct. How does it compare with other DI's, like the Reddi in the studio, etc. I'm specifically referring to the little DI box, not the model with tubes. All comments welcome!

 

[Al Kraft]

I'm curious as well, but wonder if the effects forum might yield more feedback.

 

[jnewmark]

I'm curious as well, but wonder if the effects forum might yield more feedback.

Mods, feel free to move this thread.

 

[jnewmark]

Just an FYI, these are still available.

 

[Jim C]

As I understand it (from a quote I found from Bob Ohlson on Gearl Slutz years ago) was that the "magic box" was an ATC A10 or A11 transformer.
Nothing magic, just a well made transformer of the day. Sigma Sound used them too.

A good test would be to have a poll with the same player, bass, and then either a UTC or Jenson to see if one could hear a difference. I suspect the age of the strings make a bigger difference.

IMO, the magic was (in this order) the player, the rest of the performers, the arrangers and producers, and they also had some pretty cool consoles they made back in the Land of Motown.

 

[bradd]

The attenuator is only used if running a speaker level through it. It can take up to 100w, so it pairs up with a B-15 rather well.
I use mine live and in the studio. On the last batch of recordings, I was perfectly happy with the straight tone from the DI.

 

[jnewmark]

As I understand it (from a quote I found from Bob Ohlson on Gearl Slutz years ago) was that the "magic box" was an ATC A10 or A11 transformer.
Nothing magic, just a well made transformer of the day. Sigma Sound used them too.

A good test would be to have a poll with the same player, bass, and then either a UTC or Jenson to see if one could hear a difference. I suspect the age of the strings make a bigger difference.

IMO, the magic was (in this order) the player, the rest of the performers, the arrangers and producers, and they also had some pretty cool consoles they made back in the Land of Motown.

Thanks, Jim, not expecting magic in a box, just some good hard facts about how this DI sounds, if you got 'em.

 

[bradd]

I feel that it slightly attenuates highs and lows, and brings up the low mids slightly. There also seems to be a little bit of "distortion" in the lows as well. It works well with Fenders, but really shines on Gibsons.

 

[project_c]

I’ve had one for a few years, use it every day, the difference depends on what you’re looking for and what you’re listening through. Clean signal into studio headphones / monitors - the tonal difference is obvious and it sounds beautiful. It’s a DI, not an effect pedal so it’s subtle, but easily worth it for me, I love what it adds to the tone.

 

[Jim C]

Thanks, Jim, not expecting magic in a box, just some good hard facts about how this DI sounds, if you got 'em.

bradd's descrition is pretty much what the Motown engineers on Gear Slutz have said.
BTW, these octal transformers were made in huge quantities and still available on eBay for under $100.
A metal box and a few connectors and your there should you want to build one.

In my reality, most studios I work at have good gear and the exact direct box is much less important than the player and available EQ & compression.
And usually, I use an active DI on a passive bass and vice versa so I don't get boxed into a hole if we decide to change the feel of the tune in the mix.
If you're chasing Motown, I think it's all about the low end and how you roll off the high mids (both freq. and slope).
God knows there is nothing on top especially with dead flat wounds.

 

[jnewmark]

Thanks for the replies , everyone. Any thoughts on how it compares to other DI's in the studio ? The studio I usually work at has generic DI's, as its customers cover a broad spectrum of music styles. I am there typically to do Blues, RnB and Classic Soul stuff, strictly a contracted player. I thought if I brought with me a DI that was more or less known for that Motown, B15 kind of thing, instead of having to ask the engineer to twiddle knobs for me right off the bat. Time is money, ya know, and I'm just a hired hand.

 

[Al Kraft]

While I have never used one, the A-Designs REDDI gets raves from a lot folks. I think Jimmy M has some experience with the REDDI and as a bit of an Ampeg expert, at least IMO, I think you might get some good insights from him.

 

[Jim C]

I think it really depends on your budget.
The Reddi and Broughton P15 are $500+
I don't care what anybody says, 1,000's of top 10 hits were recorded with a Countyrman Type 85 (about $165)
Rupert Neve has a box out (RNDI) that sounds like a good one although I haven't used it yet ($269)
If you are still thinking about that Motown thing and don't want to drop $500 for the copy, I'll let you in on a little secret.

The Blue Sescom direct boxes from the 80's have really nice Jensen transformers in them; there are 3 on reverb now at $50 ea. I also really like their active box which is about $100 on the used market.

 

[project_c]

Thanks for the replies , everyone. Any thoughts on how it compares to other DI's in the studio ? The studio I usually work at has generic DI's, as its customers cover a broad spectrum of music styles. I am there typically to do Blues, RnB and Classic Soul stuff, strictly a contracted player. I thought if I brought with me a DI that was more or less known for that Motown, B15 kind of thing, instead of having to ask the engineer to twiddle knobs for me right off the bat. Time is money, ya know, and I'm just a hired hand.

The Motown thing and B15 thing are 2 different things. while Jamerson gigged with Ampeg, the Motown bass tone on the recordings is a dry signal through something similar to the Motown DI transformer, with a bit of EQ, recorded onto tape.

But as mentioned above, that recorded tone can be approximated with or without a specialist DI, it just depends on how much small differences matter to you & the engineer. The Motown DI adds a touch of flavor, the Reddi will add a touch of different flavor.

You also have things like the Noble, which many people swear by, and say it’s a magical ingredient - and it does sound super nice, but it could be argued that to some it’s just an expensive treble/bass control in a pretty DI box.

Then you have things like the VT Bass pedal, which is far less subtle but it will give you a fairly legit range of tones that all sound like they’re coming out of a mic’d Ampeg rig. Or you can just use an amp plug-in to achieve that tone.

For me the Noble is too modern sounding, the VT is over the top, I don’t like amp plug-ins, but the Motown DI is perfect. But that’s a totally subjective opinion and I’m not an engineer. It all depends on what you’re hearing and what you’re looking for.

 

[JimmyM]

While I have never used one, the A-Designs REDDI gets raves from a lot folks. I think Jimmy M has some experience with the REDDI and as a bit of an Ampeg expert, at least IMO, I think you might get some good insights from him.

Not about the Motown DI. Never used it.

 

[markjazzbassist]

As I understand it (from a quote I found from Bob Ohlson on Gearl Slutz years ago) was that the "magic box" was an ATC A10 or A11 transformer.
Nothing magic, just a well made transformer of the day. Sigma Sound used them too.

A good test would be to have a poll with the same player, bass, and then either a UTC or Jenson to see if one could hear a difference. I suspect the age of the strings make a bigger difference.

IMO, the magic was (in this order) the player, the rest of the performers, the arrangers and producers, and they also had some pretty cool consoles they made back in the Land of Motown.

yes all true. i built my own "motown" DI using a vintage UTC A10 (also built one with an A11). So i kinda have one? I"ve compared it to Jensen and many other DI's.

My take is that those old transformers have a bigger low end and thicker mids and less top end. The A10 specifically. The A11 has more top end and a little less low end, i wouldn't recommend that for bass. The A10 is perfect for bass, just big thick bass and midrange, i find it is a lot lower output than modern DI boxes, which is fine, you just adjust at the preamp level. I find it extends a litttle lower than the more modern clean stuff, and it's not as polite like the radial JDI jensen. It's still a clean tone, but i've used both live at the same venue (2000 person theatre) with the same FOH rig and FOH person and everytime the FOH person is like "put the old thing you made in there, it sounds SO good". he just raves about it. Says the bass just sounds right.

Now, is it a massive tone difference? Not really. But if you have the perfect bass and strings and just wanted that little more and you think swapping your DI might be it, it might.

 

[Raw N Low]

The Motown DI is one of a handful that I use. I mainly pair it with my B-15 or SB-12 that are my designated studio amps.

@Jim C is on the right track when he says it comes down to the player and knowledge of EQ. The modern terminology of DI is thrown around to Include anything with a direct in/out to a box with a preamp. In the grand scheme of things, many of them are well marketed and overpriced. Glossy YouTube reviews don't help either.

Many of the newer audio interfaces have a great transformer based DI. Even some of the modern tube amps like the EBS T90 have a transformer that effect the DI signal. The Motown DI is a fun little box for some added flavor but, like most DI's, aren't worth the high ticket price of admission.

 

[jnewmark]

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

 

[jnewmark]

But as mentioned above, that recorded tone can be approximated with or without a specialist DI, it just depends on how much small differences matter to you & the engineer. The Motown DI adds a touch of flavor, the Reddi will add a touch of different flavor.

You also have things like the Noble, which many people swear by, and say it’s a magical ingredient - and it does sound super nice, but it could be argued that to some it’s just an expensive treble/bass control in a pretty DI box.

Then you have things like the VT Bass pedal, which is far less subtle but it will give you a fairly legit range of tones that all sound like they’re coming out of a mic’d Ampeg rig. Or you can just use an amp plug-in to achieve that tone.

For me the Noble is too modern sounding, the VT is over the top, I don’t like amp plug-ins, but the Motown DI is perfect. But that’s a totally subjective opinion and I’m not an engineer. It all depends on what you’re hearing and what you’re looking for.

Could you comment on this a little more ? I always thought from reading about the Reddi, that it was similar to the B15, as far as recording goes.

 

[tedsalt]

The Rupert Neve RNDI has a pretty sweet transformer in it also. Alot of people run straight thru these to the board. It's also more affordable than the Acme Audio Motown DI.