Action Help on Kit Build

[Imperial Tim]

Hi all, just finished this kit build from Pitbull Guitars. I upgraded the tuners and pickups, performed a full fret job, and I am really loving it, except...I can't get the action low enough. I have adjusted plenty of truss rods before and usually have no difficulty getting a nice low action. As I start to lower the saddles, I get buzzing on the first few frets. I have some leftover maple veneer that I have used to make a variety of neck shims. I have taken her apart and put her back together at least 15 times. Is there a way to measure the head angle coming off the body? I'm now wondering if I don't have the frets quite level enough. They look pretty good with a quick fret rocker check. I could use some help Thanks y'all!

 

[Smilodon]

A long ruler (or just use the strings) will probably tell you a lot. We don't know what you have tried so here are a few questions to consider:

Does the problem occur on all the upper (first) frets, or just some of them?
Is the problem consistent on all strings?
How much relief do you have in the neck?
What was your strategy for the neck shims?

Head angle shouldn't matter much if fret buzz is your problem.

I would suggest going back to basics. Set neck relief and string (saddle) height to a known value and go from there.

Very nice looking build, by the way.

 

[lokikallas]

Relief does affect action, but saddle height is for action. Set the correct relief, set the correct action. If you have buzzing it’s most likely frets out of wack.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

By first few frets you mean the ones closest to the nut? What’s the current relief and what string height do the frets start buzzing? All 4 strings?

 

[Gilmourisgod]

Sounds like it might be a nut height problem. I've been using this 4-prt YT series for all my setups, so far/so good. His numbers are conservative, in practice you can probably cheat the action a little lower, but do the whole setup in sequence. If it still buzzes, something else beyond the basics is wrong. Nice job on the kit, BTW.

 

[Imperial Tim]

Relief is currently almost flat, barely perceptible bow (in the correct direction). String spacing at last fret between the top of fret and bottom of sting is about 3mm on the bass side and 2mm on the treble. This is as low as it will go before buzzing occurs, the saddles are at their bottom. If i tighten the truss rod, frets 1-3 on the a and d string will buzz. Action will still not be even close to low enough at this point.

As far as neck shims. I am using a very thin maple veneer and I have tried all of the following with truss rod and saddle adjustments after each:1 sheet whole length, half pocket length sheet at the front, then half at the back, also a variety of stacked options with the whole sheet and half (half on front, then on the back). I'm sure that's confusing but hopefully it makes sense. Happy to take pics too.

I had buzzing frets on the top end (closer to pickups) but I maybe have solved that already. I pulled the neck and gave some extra block sanding to the last 8 frets and re crowned, dressed etc...This provides a slight taper that was recommended in one of the Guns n Guitars videos on youtube. The problem with the lower frets (closer to the nut) has existed before I did this fix.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Imperial Tim]

The current shim is a half shim at the rear of the pocket, closest to the bridge. This shim extends the full width of the neck pocket from the heel to half way to the front of the pocket. Other shims placements resulted in lower action but more unplayable. I have never had to shim a neck, so in this matter I am a newb.

 

[N4860]

Shims are usually just to give you extra room for bottomed out saddles, no? I've never used a shim to try to get the action lower aside from if the saddles on the bridge are already too low.

If you are getting buzzing in the first few frets, I would guess maybe you need to loosen the truss rod a bit. Either that or the frets need more work (i.e leveling). I just finished a kit build of this tele pictured below and I did have to level the frets on it before putting it all together. I still have a bit of an issue with a high fret on the high e string but it's not bothered me enough to fix it just yet.

 

[thewildest]

The current shim is a half shim at the rear of the pocket, closest to the bridge. This shim extends the full width of the neck pocket from the heel to half way to the front of the pocket. Other shims placements resulted in lower action but more unplayable. I have never had to shim a neck, so in this matter I am a newb.

I’ve shim’d a bass once; similarly as you have, I first did a partial section of the pocket, and while the thickness it was tiny, the effect it had brought the bass to an unadjustable state.

I then installed a layer over the whole area available on the pocket; no angle tricks, just a way to bring the whole neck closer to the strings, and worked as a charm.

The note about the nut is also a good point; perhaps not a terrible idea to have a new one you can play with and adjust at will, or a height-configurable one as the ones used by Warwick.

 

[dieggsy]

I don't know anything about this, just want to say that's a great looking build! ....kinda want a bass that looks like that now.

 

[Old_Noob]

no expert, but if you are having issue with action not low enough then why the shim? logically if neck is straight and frets level and relief properly set and saddles bottomed, then the nut is the only remaining variable.

 

[Bodeeni]

I just changed a bass around after the neck developed a bad kink. I had a cheap neck around for years I never used because it seemed to need a full fret leveling. After seeing a few youtubes on this I spent some time hammering down the frets in question before filing and that worked quite well in most of the spots. The neck in question is playing well enough for this budget project. So now I am a believer to check that the frets have been seated properly before filing.

 

[MVE]

It sounds like your nut might be cut too low.

Try shimming the nut with a few strips of masking tape across the bottom of it.

It sounds like thats the only thing left you haven’t tried yet.

It might also be the neck pocket is just too deep. You might need a little shim up before adjusting for angle.

 

[Cave Puppy]

Sounds like it might be a nut height problem. I've been using this 4-prt YT series for all my setups, so far/so good. His numbers are conservative, in practice you can probably cheat the action a little lower, but do the whole setup in sequence. If it still buzzes, something else beyond the basics is wrong. Nice job on the kit, BTW.

This series is the bee’s knees! It was my Mel Bay for set ups.

 

[Imperial Tim]

Thanks guys, I'm getting closer. I put some masking tape under the nut and that has helped. Im still not sure the head height/angle is right. Should the fretboard be parallel with the body or should it have a slight angle to the front or rear of the body? My current shim has the neck going slightly to the backside of the body.

 

[MVE]

The body doesn’t matter, only the bridge saddles.

There will always be a straight line between the nut and the bridge saddles. You need to adjust the shim of the neck until you get it sitting correctly under that line.