Active Line Array vs Powered Speaker Sound System for New Band

[Ulf Buck]

Do you center the sub or subs? I read somewhere NOT to put them on the sides under the mains and that they need to be centered.

We don't typically center the subs when we use our gear, the club owner I mentioned does. We get comments on every show about the sound quality with our stuff, but a lot of that is the great sound guys we use.
The pic below shows the house setup. The 4 mains are suspended from the ceiling in pairs. The setup below 2 k subs and 4 k12s can be terrifyingly loud but still clear in this room which is about 200 capacity

Carnivalle

• Ulf Buck
• Sep 16, 2016

 

[waveman]

KISS

 

[thekyle55]

Check out Seismic Audio, they have anything you could possibly need, at reasonable prices. Line Arrays, powered subs and systems.

Seismic, Harbinger, Kustom, even Mackie and Peavey are fine if you need to make noise. If you want a good sounding system that gets loud, stay away. There are much better ways to spend your money.

I am looking at doing something similar soon for a system for me and my boys to use when we jam. I'll probably spend a little more up front since I don't want to be replacing anything down the road. Looking to start with a Soundcraft Ui24R Mixer and two QSC K12.2 powered speakers. No sub to start as my bass amp should provide enough bump for what we'll be doing. The Soundcraft unit is rack based, so I'll likely buy something like this as well Gator GRB-4U - 4 Rack Spaces

I don't ever see myself outgrowing the Soundcraft unit ($999) vs smaller options that don't save much money.

The Ui24 is very interesting. I looked at the smaller ones when they came out, and liked the interface, but there were some limitations that made me choose the X18. Some of those have been addressed.

Do you center the sub or subs? I read somewhere NOT to put them on the sides under the mains and that they need to be centered.

It isn't about centering. It's about getting subs where they sound best, and that's rarely twenty feet apart on each side of a snack stage. When you have subs spread, you get comb filtering. That is eliminated with a sub cluster, and the subs will couple, which gives you extra output for free.

 

[Jsun_Tyler]

As a bandleader and audio engineer, I say take it slow. I see too many people who rush out and buy a bunch of pricey equipment and then have no idea how to use it. The more full-featured and "pro" your system is, the more complex it will be. If you are new to running sound (and playing at the same time) then take it easy. Since these systems are all modular you can grow them as your knowledge evolves.

Buy a beginner system. There is no shame in starting with something basic. I guarantee the audience won't know or care. It sounds like you can get away with a simple 8-12 channel mixer, 2 powered 12" PA speakers and 2 powered 8" or 10" powered speakers as monitors/backups. You don't need a sub to get started. Buy used and you can probably get everything you need for under $1,500. Look for big brand names like Mackie, Alto, Yamaha or QSC. Save extra money for cases, cables and all the things you didn't know you needed like party lights, gaffe tape and cable ties.

A system like that will cover any kind of party, wedding or bar gig where you need to bring your own PA. 99% of those situations don't want overpowering volume all the way in the back of the room, so why bring extra firepower that will only get you in trouble. If you absolutely need more volume for a really large outdoor gig, you now own a modular system so it will be easy to borrow/rent a couple extra speakers for the night.

Great information thank you

 

[Jsun_Tyler]

We have QSC K12s (2) and K Subs (2). Usually use just 1 k sub. They sound superb and are very robust and durable. They can handle a 200 cap room no problem. My band is hard rock/old school metal, and we get the desired crisp punchy bass and drum sound out the the k sub (2 12 inch speakers) rather than the boomy bass I often perceive from single 18 inch subs. My bass rig and guitar players rig are mostly for stage volume and looks but sometimes get turned up if sound guy calls for it.
We went with these because a club we play 8 to 10 times a year has these; 4 k12s and 2 K subs as their house system. It is a smokey club, this gear is used heavily 4 times a week by different sound guys with different mixers and experience levels and has held up for years with minor servicing.(cleaning constant cigarette funk off the innards mostly)
Don't go without 1 K sub, it takes a huge power load off the mains.
They sit at the higher price point of mid range gear but worth the extra money.

This sounds like the setup for me thanks for sharing

 

[Jsun_Tyler]

This forum has really educated me thank you to everyone who gave input!

 

[musicman7722]

I use 2 K10's (now K10.2) and up to 4 EV 12" powered subs. when possible I center the subs.

Also you can get into wired IEM for less than the cost a a good powered wedge and you won't need graphics for feedback either. Say $300 a player.

 

[Jsun_Tyler]

I use 2 K10's (now K10.2) and up to 4 EV 12" powered subs. when possible I center the subs.

Also you can get into wired IEM for less than the cost a a good powered wedge and you won't need graphics for feedback either. Say $300 a player.

What brand of IEM do you suggest? Along with IEM would i need some kind of either head phone amp or can I run and aux directly to IE and that be ok? IEM does reduce the feed back issue greatly!

 

[Joe Ty]

It isn't about centering. It's about getting subs where they sound best, and that's rarely twenty feet apart on each side of a snack stage. When you have subs spread, you get comb filtering. That is eliminated with a sub cluster, and the subs will couple, which gives you extra output for free.

Yes, that was the same term the other guy used. So you find the best place for them and keep them together?

 

[cultrvultr]

We use a system exactly as described above for the last 3 yrs. I use 2 yamaha dxr 12s for mains and 3 dxr 10s for wedges and a single powered sub. Sounds great and is powerful enough for medium sized clubs while still being portable and quick to set up. These and a A&H digital board

This is the exact setup I am using too. Yamaha DXRs and an A&H QU board.

 

[thekyle55]

Yes, that was the same term the other guy used. So you find the best place for them and keep them together?

Best is relative. The best place soundwise rarely works aesthetically or functionally. You don't want your subs in the middle of the dance floor, even if that's where they sound the best. Sometimes, one in each side works fine. Sometimes a center cluster is best.

 

[musicman7722]

What brand of IEM do you suggest? Along with IEM would i need some kind of either head phone amp or can I run and aux directly to IE and that be ok? IEM does reduce the feed back issue greatly!

I have found over 6 years that I can use Westone dual drivers right out of the box with the mid size tips. They have a small and large tip as well in the box. These cost around $200. Then go with a small mixer 2- 4 channel or a rolls mixer with compression.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I have found over 6 years that I can use Westone dual drivers right out of the box with the mid size tips. They have a small and large tip as well in the box. These cost around $200. Then go with a small mixer 2- 4 channel or a rolls mixer with compression.

when I was thinking about IEM it came up that a hard limiter was the only sure protection from extraneous thumps and screams. Compression not enough to save you blowing your ears sometimes.

 

[BassGuyFL]

We don't typically center the subs when we use our gear, the club owner I mentioned does. We get comments on every show about the sound quality with our stuff, but a lot of that is the great sound guys we use.
The pic below shows the house setup. The 4 mains are suspended from the ceiling in pairs. The setup below 2 k subs and 4 k12s can be terrifyingly loud but still clear in this room which is about 200 capacity

Carnivalle

• Ulf Buck
• Sep 16, 2016

I know that place well!

 

[Joe Ty]

when I was thinking about IEM it came up that a hard limiter was the only sure protection from extraneous thumps and screams. Compression not enough to save you blowing your ears sometimes.

The digital mixer I'm looking at offers the following. Is that I sufficient in your mind?

• 31-band graphic EQ, noise gate, compressor, and dbx® AFS2 Automatic Feedback Suppression on all outputs

 

[Downunderwonder]

The digital mixer I'm looking at offers the following. Is that I sufficient in your mind?

• 31-band graphic EQ, noise gate, compressor, and dbx® AFS2 Automatic Feedback Suppression on all outputs

I doubt it though many probably make do with that. Search hard limiter / limiting IEM mic drop.

 

[DirtDog]

Ignore your friend. Suggesting line array for a start up band is like suggesting a F1 car as a good fit for a 16 year old...

Especially if the rooms this PA will be used in are the equivalent of driving an F1 in the Walmart parking lot.

 

[4Mal]

I am looking at doing something similar soon for a system for me and my boys to use when we jam. I'll probably spend a little more up front since I don't want to be replacing anything down the road. Looking to start with a Soundcraft Ui24R Mixer and two QSC K12.2 powered speakers. No sub to start as my bass amp should provide enough bump for what we'll be doing. The Soundcraft unit is rack based, so I'll likely buy something like this as well Gator GRB-4U - 4 Rack Spaces

I don't ever see myself outgrowing the Soundcraft unit ($999) vs smaller options that don't save much money.

Would be a nice rig. Personally I would add at least 1 kw-181 and work to achieve a nice full but not loud stage sound... that can really help you achieve a polished sound.

 

[Ulf Buck]

I know that place well!

We need a secret handshake.

(shameless plug) we are playing there next friday aug 11 (shameless plug)

 

[Jsun_Tyler]

Thanks to all the helpful information in this thread I have been able to research PA equipment with some understanding. Now I need this forums help again I was at a outside jazz concert and the PA was using the Mackie Thump series probably 15's & 18 sub and the sound was really powerful and clear. I was all set to by them until I had a conversation with someone I trust and he said don't but the Thump Series by SRM450 instead they are better. Thump are cheaper, SRM are louder but heavier, I started reading reviews and some people say the SRM are harsh but the Thump series muddies up mid frequencies when up loud for a while. I found research of people supporting both and then QSC K12 got into the mix now I am all confused. If you have used the Mackie Thump series, Mackie SRM450 or QSC K12 please leave me some feed back on your experience with them. As I am close to making a purchase that will consist of 2 12's and 1 Sub. I was torn between 12's and 15's but after thinking it through I don't need the lows of the 15's if I have a sub. Thanks again for your help