Its due to the op amp chip. Any op amp that can run on a battery is not good as far as op amps go.
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Active Pickups - Is it just me, or these pickups?
- Thread starter Ritter667
- Start date
Care to elaborate? What characteristics of opamps that can run on batteries make them unsuitable?
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Unsuitable is subjective , some people do not mind low end sound , some demand high end sound. Op amps that have such a low amp draw found on board do not have good sound. In the hifi world the op amps in guitar and bass would only be found in low end equipment. Op amps that cost cents vs dollars. In order to get a op amp to sound good it requires amp draw that would drain a 9v quickly. Looking up all the op amps found in guitar and bass always translate to low end chips. In the hifi world alot of Chip Rolling goes on. You can here the difference between chips. Just like tube rolling in amps. Its much easier to get better chips in hifi equipment because you are not dependent on a small battery.
But that doesn't answer my question. Every opamp datasheet has a long table of Electrical Characteristics specified at particular voltages, at specific temps, and across a range of temps. Which of those published characteristics are responsible for "not a good sound"? Judging by Iq alone is an amateur move.
I know you're in the business of making and selling passive pickups, but I would expect you to have more than anecdotal information about what characteristics make any particular circuit topology sound "good" or "bad" if you're going to make blanket statements like that.
Besides that, do you have knowledge that the EMG-X preamp found in the pickups in question are IC opamps and not discrete? I honestly don't know the answer. Regardless, the same electrical characteristics would apply whether it's a discrete or IC circuit.
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This IC was undoubtedly chosen in the beginning by Japanese design engineers because it was one of the cheapest dual opamps on the market with acceptable audio performance. As such, it was used in huge volumes of Japanese audio equipment. Despite its questionable audio performance, it seems to be well suited to duty in overdrive circuits.
Only amateurs do not understand that low quality chips are used in guitar and bass on board pre amps
Seriously, you're referencing a 50yr old opamp design as the basis for your statement that all modern low-current opamps sound bad?
There's nothing more to say.
Then kindly explain this as what you have done so far is very far from any explanation.
I might had exaggerated a bit, due to my disappointment.
With the active tone knob down a bit, and now that I've gotten more used to the sound it is not that bad.
Definitely an improvement over the original passive pickup in terms of definition, much clearer, but I still feel the EMG is a bit lacking when it comes to character and dynamic response (not in terms of velocity/volume, but as I already mentioned, the fact that it doesn't really change character much according to how and how hard I pluck).
And I still can't help to wonder if the passive EMG JHZ had perhaps been a better choice, given that I love the sound of the passive EMG Geezer Butler J pickup in my other bass.
With the active tone knob down a bit, and now that I've gotten more used to the sound it is not that bad.
Definitely an improvement over the original passive pickup in terms of definition, much clearer, but I still feel the EMG is a bit lacking when it comes to character and dynamic response (not in terms of velocity/volume, but as I already mentioned, the fact that it doesn't really change character much according to how and how hard I pluck).
And I still can't help to wonder if the passive EMG JHZ had perhaps been a better choice, given that I love the sound of the passive EMG Geezer Butler J pickup in my other bass.
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IIRC reading around here, the Geezer J pickup is identical to the EMG JVHZ bridge pickup.
But there aren’t a whole lot of inherent advantages to those pickups vs any other split-coil J set apart from the quick-release wiring parts (which IMO are a con rather than a pro).
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Passinwind
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- Dec 3, 2003
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Paging @Jerry Catanescu from JTEX. He's posted actual noise and distortion measurements of some of his creations, many of which have very low current draw.
Hmm, should I get triggered or not?
OK, here's a 0.65mA/channel opamp that RME sprinkles everywhere in their RME Babyface Pro. It's not easy to get much more pro audio than that.
I've also used the chip (OPA1692) in some of my battery powered creations.
OK, here's a 0.65mA/channel opamp that RME sprinkles everywhere in their RME Babyface Pro. It's not easy to get much more pro audio than that.
I've also used the chip (OPA1692) in some of my battery powered creations.
I'm really interested in trying the OPA1662 for a particular audio application I have in mind. Slightly higher Iq than the 1692 at 1.5mA/ch (which is still lower than the JRC4558 mentioned above), but a lot of promising specs. I'll check out the 1692, as well.
Passinwind
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I was using OPA1692 pretty happily in onboard builds for a while during the post-Covid parts shortage. For many of my purposes a few lower current parts sound as good or better though: OPA2205 and OPA2145. Haven’t tried OPA1662 yet, but IMO OPA1642 is a great all purpose chip for MI. Be sure to look at the current noise and not just the bullet point voltage noise figure if you’re dealing with high impedance sources.
Hint: OPA1692 makes a nice, clean, low idle current headphone amp. Especially with both sides paralleled for each channel.
Passinwind
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Sweet, I have quite a few left over that I’ve been looking to do something with.
I’ve primarily have played passive basses and have owned a few active basses. For me I can take active basses or leave them. In my estimation if you have a good rig with a good tonal palette (read no baked in sound) and don’t change your tone a lot, there really is not much need for a second onboard preamp that duplicates the one in your rig.
That said the point however is as a player you need to be able to get the tone you like. And it’s ok that people have a preference for one or the other to get to that point.
Well, this is active pickups, not passive pickups with an onboard preamp, active pickups needs a preamp to even work.
And my question was if my experience were typical for active pickups or it was just these ones, or I am imagining things.
And as an update I uninstalled the EMG and installed the stock passive pickup again, to me a much better fit, for this bass at least.
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I’m not sure if you are imagining things. My only experience with active bass are those with active pickups with onboard preamps. Personally I agree with your assessment on your first post, they are different in response it shouldn’t be surprising.
For the most part an electric bass and guitar is Faraday revisited. Moving metal through a magnetic field creating electricity. I’m no electronic engineer by any stretch of the imagination but the process in how this signal is converted to a note is different between active and passive.
To me since passive basses without the step up preamp stage , would need to create enough gain and therefore more windings for your amp rig to enable to amplify it cleanly. Active pickups are designed to be used with and onboard preamps with may or may not offer an onboard EQ capabilities. I’m going to surmise that the gain from a bass with active pickups without an onboard preamp might be somewhat disappointing.
I’m really not trying to be a smart @ss here. I’m just trying to help hear and hoping I’m not mucking up the waters for the most part. Have a good one.
EMGs are specifically designd to not require any further amplification or tone shaping on the instrument. They are designed to replace passive pickups. The OP was using his EMG as it was designed - he just didn't jive with the results.
As far as how active and passive pickups work, they are exactly the same physics. The only difference is that there are fewer windings and lower impedance in an active pickup, which is then buffered and amplified by the preamp built into the pickup. There is no fundamental change in how they sense the movement of the string (unlike piezo or optical pickups).
I have 2 basses with active pickups; a Yamaha BB5000A, and a Carruthers w/EMG Js. I love them for their consistency and polished "studio" tone, and engineers love them. That said, I have a very consistent attack that works to those instruments' strengths. If I need something more gnarly that responds different to really digging in, I have other basses that do that thing.
