Adam Clayton Does Not Suck.

[Toastfuzz]

He may make more money than Jaco or any other virtuoso player/band but this doesn't mean anything. It just says that people prefer very simple mainstream stuff than art.

Not really. I can think of only two. And comparing these two players is udderly retoculous.

Can't wait until 10 years from now when everyone forgets about Jaco Pastorius and stops using him as the example of the be-all-end-all bass player. I'd never heard of him before I joined TB, and years later and listening to countless tracks posted by members, I just don't see the appeal. I click every link people post, hoping to see the light, and it hasnt happened.

But I've also found that my musical tastes differ from alot of TB members, and alot of TB members tastes differ from other TB members, the older generation seems to keep Jaco up on a pedestal and us young'ns feel obligated to appreciate it whether we like it or not, because its "art" and if you disagree then you don't understand what "art" is (what a great argument!)

What I have heard and do appreciate is 80's U2, and when I get out of the car and hum the last tune I just heard, its not the Edge's echo effect, its Clayton's bassline.

Cue 5 or 6 posts telling me I have no ear for music and I am the example of whats wrong with this generation

 

[Dean N]

Can't wait until 10 years from now when everyone forgets about Jaco Pastorius and stops using him as the example of the be-all-end-all bass player. I'd never heard of him before I joined TB, and years later and listening to countless tracks posted by members, I just don't see the appeal. I click every link people post, hoping to see the light, and it hasnt happened.

Or, in 10 years, you might also appreciate (and really dig) Jaco. And Clayton. And people will still be speaking highly of Jaco in 50 years. You can't argue his impact on music, jazz, and bass.

I keep going back to listen to Dylan every few months, and while I don't dislike him, I'm not blown away. I don't love his stuff. I kind of like it, but...

I still respect him and appreciate it.

 

[Toastfuzz]

Or, in 10 years, you might also appreciate (and really dig) Jaco. And Clayton. And people will still be speaking highly of Jaco in 50 years. You can't argue his impact on music, jazz, and bass.

I keep going back to listen to Dylan every few months, and while I don't dislike him, I'm not blown away. I don't love his stuff. I kind of like it, but...

I still respect him and appreciate it.

I'm just tryin to say I do appreciate Clayton, and his impact through U2. I'm not gonna drink the Jaco Kool-aid cuz I've been trying to appreciate him for going on 3 years and just can't do it. And I have no idea of his impact on music/jazz in general, because A.) not everyone listens to Jazz B.) most people who aren't TB members have never heard of Jaco. His impact on bass is obvious, but only through these forums.

Since this turned in to a hater thread, I figured I'd side-bar it and throw some other random hate around. Bottom line, people have different tastes. Making Jaco out to be Jesus Christ on Bass is just absurd though, he isn't to everybody, just as Jesus isn't special to everybody either, even though Christians think he should be.

 

[lfmn16]

Can't wait until 10 years from now when everyone forgets about Jaco Pastorius and stops using him as the example of the be-all-end-all bass player.

You'll be waiting a lot longer than 10 years.

I just don't see the appeal.
Cue 5 or 6 posts telling me I have no ear for music and I am the example of whats wrong with this generation

What's wrong with this generation is that many have no appreciation for or understanding of what came before them. You don't need to LIKE Jaco to understand his contribution to bass playing.

 

[Duckwater]

Or, in 10 years, you might also appreciate (and really dig) Jaco. And Clayton. And people will still be speaking highly of Jaco in 50 years. You can't argue his impact on music, jazz, and bass.

I agree with this. I'm 18 and up until recently I didn't dig Jaco. I started studying Jazz this year and I'm a huge fan now, he's still not my favorite though. I don't think you can truly appreciate him unless you were alive to witness his impact on bass playing.

 

[Ian the bassist]

Clayton gets laughed at often by the bass playing community and is seen by many as a lousy bass player. He has been called overrated, boring, and just plain terrible. For some reason, he has the reputation of being someone who cannot play well enough for his band to be successful, but I would like to challenge this community to tell me why he has the reputation he does. Clayton may not be John Entwistle reincarnated but he is a solid player who keeps great rhythms and plays very well live. The music he plays sounds very good so I don't see the problem everyone else has in his ability as a bass player and as an asset to his group.

In my opinion. There is nothing special about him. He mostly just plays roots for the entire song with no cool fills or anything to spice up the song. Nothing wrong with this, occasionally. But you have to add something to songs to make them great. And I feel U2, not only Adam Clayton, are not great at doing this.

I'm Irish(so I am allowed bash them ;P), and I absolutely can't stand U2. Except maybe a few songs. It's the same with most Irish people. They're not well liked here. Especially Bono. Everyone hates him haha. American's seem to love U2 though. But they most certainly are not one of the best things to come out of Ireland. I leave that to Thin Lizzy, Rory Gallagher and the Dubliners. They deserve much more praise.(I also feel they all had better bass players ;P)

 

[Mark4]

He's able to do more with less, his lines are memorable, they fit the songs well, and he consistently delivers. That takes talent on all counts. In a band like U2, what more could you want?

 

[Dean N]

Since this turned in to a hater thread, I figured I'd side-bar it and throw some other random hate around.

I'm not seeing any hating going on here. Other than you and Jesus.

I'm just saying that you might need to be 30, or 35 (or 25?), before some different stuff appeals to you. I've been listening to jazz since high school, and I'm now nearly 40, and I'm finally able to listen to and like (and not just appreciate) fusion.

Clayton playing for that band for however long, and doing stuff that fits, is a true measure of a musician. And you appreciate that. Not everyone can.

 

[Freez]

I hate these threads. Who are any of you to comment on what is or isn't art? - Ridiculous. Is a catchy pop tune any less artful than Beethovens fifth? Or vice versa? Does a guy wanking 1000 notes per minute constitute art? Maybe to some...art can't be defined, because people tend to confuse "art" with "personal preference", and their own personal taste, or lack thereof...

I agree with the op; Adam Clayton does not suck...his timing is superb, and he plays in key. The things he plays serve his bands music quite well; I've never heard a single U2 song that made me think "god, this song is ok, but the bass playing is horrible". Those of you that think it isn't art unless it's complicated, well, you'll grow out of that someday, THEN you will have a better grasp of your instrument and what makes a good bass player.

 

[Ian the bassist]

I hate these threads. Who are any of you to comment on what is or isn't art? - Ridiculous. Is a catchy pop tune any less artful than Beethovens fifth? Or vice versa? Does a guy wanking 1000 notes per minute constitute art? Maybe to some...art can't be defined, because people tend to confuse "art" with "personal preference", and their own personal taste, or lack thereof...

I agree with the op; Adam Clayton does not suck...his timing is superb, and he plays in key. The things he plays serve his bands music quite well; I've never heard a single U2 song that made me think "god, this song is ok, but the bass playing is horrible". Those of you that think it isn't art unless it's complicated, well, you'll grow out of that someday, THEN you will have a better grasp of your instrument and what makes a good bass player.

This isn't in a way a smart ass comment or a shot at you. But this is what's required of any bassist. Yes the guy is solid timing, and blends into the songs. But it doesn't mean he's anything special at the same time. Most bassists out there can do this.

It's the bassists that stand out in a piece that make it for me. I'm not saying he's bad. But there's nothing about him(in my personal opinion) that makes him unique or special. Obviously as you stated. This is my personal preference. And respect all other's as much as my own(unless they are just plain, dumb hahaha)

 

[BulbousMoses]

What is art? Vincent van Gogh was largely unknown while he was alive. It wasn't until 50 years after he died that people started to appreciate his paintings and they began selling for vast sums of money. But if you asked someone in 1888 what they thought of van Gogh, they would have replied "Who?" The point being, many times, it's not the artist themself who gets to define good art. If I decide I like Adam Clayton, then to me it's good art (or bass playing). If you don't like him, that's fine but YOU don't get to decide for ME and vice versa.

 

[Ian the bassist]

I'm just tryin to say I do appreciate Clayton, and his impact through U2. I'm not gonna drink the Jaco Kool-aid cuz I've been trying to appreciate him for going on 3 years and just can't do it. And I have no idea of his impact on music/jazz in general, because A.) not everyone listens to Jazz B.) most people who aren't TB members have never heard of Jaco. His impact on bass is obvious, but only through these forums.

Since this turned in to a hater thread, I figured I'd side-bar it and throw some other random hate around. Bottom line, people have different tastes. Making Jaco out to be Jesus Christ on Bass is just absurd though, he isn't to everybody, just as Jesus isn't special to everybody either, even though Christians think he should be.

Excellent point. Very true. I am not mad about Jaco either. I always thought his overuse of harmonics was a little annoying. I did recognise his skittles though. Just not my thing, music wise. Doesn't mean that I'm right though. But neither are the Jaco worshipers ;P

 

[chuck norriss]

This is a cool simple Clayton line: Invalid Link Removed
I like the interlude or whatever it is.

 

[PlungerModerno]

I hate these threads. Who are any of you to comment on what is or isn't art? - Ridiculous. Is a catchy pop tune any less artful than Beethovens fifth? Or vice versa? Does a guy wanking 1000 notes per minute constitute art? Maybe to some...art can't be defined, because people tend to confuse "art" with "personal preference", and their own personal taste, or lack thereof...

I agree with the op; Adam Clayton does not suck...his timing is superb, and he plays in key. The things he plays serve his bands music quite well; I've never heard a single U2 song that made me think "god, this song is ok, but the bass playing is horrible". Those of you that think it isn't art unless it's complicated, well, you'll grow out of that someday, THEN you will have a better grasp of your instrument and what makes a good bass player.

Art is a subjective thing. We'll never agree on what music we see as best - this is why there's lots of different types in the first place. To me, U2 is samey. Meaning its not what I like and I find it boring. I find the lack of variety in the bass (IMHO) to be insufferable after 1-2 songs. The whole band just isn't my cup of tea.
Your the example `I've never heard a single U2 song that made me think "god, this song is ok, but the bass playing is horrible" ' misses the point I think. At least as far as my criticisms go. I don't think he sucks, he's just Ok, and that's perfect for what I see as a just Ok band. not to my taste and technically solid at best. IMO I must emphasize. To anothers ears they could be like Booker T & the MG's in mine

I suck more than Clayton. But I can still rate him highly or not just as I can with any artist or work of art. I'm not right or wrong, just reacting to a work of art. Which, to me, feels more like a product - churned out with no real passion - than an album with fire (eg. led zeppelin I).
You are of course 100% correct to say complexity isn't a measure of artistic validity. But variety can be used to great effect in all musical styles. IMHO Clayton doesn't add the spice/groove/variation I so delight in.

In my opinion. There is nothing special about him. He mostly just plays roots for the entire song with no cool fills or anything to spice up the song. Nothing wrong with this, occasionally. But you have to add something to songs to make them great. And I feel U2, not only Adam Clayton, are not great at doing this.

I'm Irish(so I am allowed bash them ;P), and I absolutely can't stand U2. Except maybe a few songs. It's the same with most Irish people. They're not well liked here. Especially Bono. Everyone hates him haha. American's seem to love U2 though. But they most certainly are not one of the best things to come out of Ireland. I leave that to Thin Lizzy, Rory Gallagher and the Dubliners. They deserve much more praise.(I also feel they all had better bass players ;P)

+1

I know exactly what you mean. It's the spice that makes the song. To me many U2 songs sound like demos - basic song structure, heavily processed (even sounding in an unpleasant way) then covered in 500 guitar overdubs, none of which have what I call a delicious feel / hook. Maybe it's just me.

I'm Irish too. U2 are fairly popular here, but mainly with people who grew up with them. Those that are fans, even lifers, often make a point to distance themselves from the 'message' Bono spreads.
His problem is bad PR: constant holier than thou attitude/perceived attitude, and the biggie, the fact that he's extremely wealthy and philanthropic, but is perceived as "Do what I say not what I do" by many. In other words he earns a great deal of wealth and is not seen to share a significant fraction of it. Coupled with the `preaching' about poverty and injustice he is accused being a hypocrite. I've shared some of these views but have seen this general attitude to Bono and U2 as long as I recall (last 10 years certainly). I raised an eyebrow when he dodged his native countrys tax by moving the business to Monaco....
Not Fair to judge a band by their politics, but I can't help but share with you what everyone I speak to says about the Band & Bono (well 75%+ of people I speak to anyway).

P.S. not a massive Dubliners fan (or any trad/folk really) But a Thin Lizzy and Rory Gallagher fan since I was 12. Irish music has a tradition of greatness.

"Does anybody here have any Irish in them? Is there any of the girls'd like a little more Irish in them?" Phillip Lynott, Thin Lizzy, Emerald, Live and Dangerous.

Gerry McAvoy (Rory Gallaghers bassist) was a huge factor in my bass obsession at the beginning. He, and Phil would run rings around U2. Not that we'll ever know for certain
Can you feel that groove?

 

[Toastfuzz]

I'm just saying that you might need to be 30, or 35 (or 25?), before some different stuff appeals to you.

This is why I took my birthday out of my profile. Too often I pose an opposing view and its immediately discredited by my age. For the record I'm 26.

But my point is that far too many people think that because they've been around for awhile, their opinion is more valid than others'. I argue that everyone's opinion is equal, and I'll jump in to defend others' opinions when they are invalidated by others (as mine often are.)

Dean I'm not calling you out on this, actually I'm diggin this back and forth we have going. And if you really to appreciate the dude's music, thats awesome. Am I allowed to not like his music without being discredited for my age? If we sat down to chat you may be impressed with just where my classical influences lie.

The mistake was when someone said "if you look at it from one perspective, AC was more successful than Jaco." From one perspective, yes. Money is tangible, as is popularity. "Artistic value" is not. How can you argue that? (rhetorical question, not targetted to Dean, but to the general thread)

PS. And sorry to bring Jesus into the discussion. That was mean of me, I apologize to the Christians, I was just trying to make a comparison.

 

[lfmn16]

Those of you that think it isn't art unless it's complicated, well, you'll grow out of that someday, THEN you will have a better grasp of your instrument and what makes a good bass player.

Being complicated doesn't make playing good, but neither does being simple. There is nothing noble or superior about sticking to root and 5th.

It's ironic that you post "Who are any of you to comment on what is or isn't art?" Yet you have no problem on defining what constitutes good bass playing as if there is a one size fits all definition.

You'll really know that you've grown up when your playing supports your musical goals, not someone else's definition of what makes good bass playing.

 

[Nomadskills]

I'm late to the party here and know these have been addressed but for whatever reason I still feel the need to...

He may make more money than Jaco or any other virtuoso player/band but this doesn't mean anything. It just says that people prefer very simple mainstream stuff than art.

Mainstream music isn't art?

Making lots of money does not = good music/art!!!!

Not making money doesn't = good music/art either.

I'd never heard of him before I joined TB, and years later and listening to countless tracks posted by members, I just don't see the appeal. I click every link people post, hoping to see the light, and it hasnt happened.

Same with me. I understand his contributions not just to bass but to music in general, respect him for it, and understand I will never have close to his ability in any aspect, but I still don't like his music.

 

[wes stephenson]

1 : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation <the art of making friends>
2 a : a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) plural : liberal arts
b archaic : learning, scholarship
3 : an occupation requiring knowledge or skill <the art of organ building>
4 a : the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced
b (1) : fine arts (2) : one of the fine arts (3) : a graphic art
5 a archaic : a skillful plan
b : the quality or state of being artful
6 : decorative or illustrative elements in printed matter

The definition of art. In this definition one of the terms used often is "skill".


2 a : the ability to use one's knowledge effectively and readily in execution or performance
b : dexterity or coordination especially in the execution of learned physical tasks
3 : a learned power of doing something competently : a developed aptitude or ability <language skills>

Art can be found in all the genres of music even pop music. There is an art to learning and manipulating the pop formula to reach a broad spectrum of listeners. Just like there is an art to writing defensive plays in any sport competition.

All you cats going back and forth about different musicians being more or less artful are probably not artists. That being said, your ears are like muscles you have to develop them. When I first listened to Coltrane I couldnt "hear" him. 5 years later after "study"ing and refining my "skill" I re listened to him and found him to be brilliant.

Maybe you cats that can't "hear" Jaco or Adam Clayton should do aural pushups and in the meanwhile be a little less inclined to talk negative about their ability. Oh yea and leave Jesus out of it too that's intolerant and ugly...

 

[wes stephenson]

What would be cool would be for anyone of us to be able play for U2 at the level mr Clayton does and then go play with Prince, George jones, The Yellow Jackets, Mos Def, The Clash, Suicidal Tendencies, and Chris Potter and be convincing. Then you could talk ALL the trash you want...

 

[lustersilk]

Adam is a wonderful musician and bass player. Any other thoughts are just closed minded rubbish!