Adam Clayton Does Not Suck.

[PlungerModerno]

A real bass player plays what the song calls for. The idea of what a bass player is supposed to do has been totally perverted by the more gifted and more talented. A bass player that plays pocket and not alot of notes is the best player. You dont see all these bass players w crazy chops getting real gigs, they have to do their own thing, and theres a reason. I respect everyone, and everyones abilities, im not a strictly pocket bass player, but i know when to lay it. Its all about the music, not about your personal skills.

Sorry bassistloaded21 but you are sorely mistaken. Lots and lots of bass players with ridiculous amounts of facility have top gigs. Not trying to be argumentative but that statement is wrong.

Wrong wrong WRONG! just kidding

I think it's all about what you look for in a bassist. If you play flamboyantly most country bands won't have you. If you play "pocket" or locked in with straightforward groove in a progressive rock band... you get the Idea.
Different players for different situations.
A real bass player is somebody who plays bass. A pro will need to contribute to the music effectively to keep in demand. sometimes this is simple... sometimes its wooten lead lines / speed shredding on bass.

bassistloaded21: assuming you aren't a troll with "The idea of what a bass player is supposed to do has been totally perverted by the more gifted and more talented." I can only say that's an opinion most people on this forum don't share. I've seen quotes along those lines on umteen threads in band management (v.good subforum) from various band mates demanding the bassist always 'keep it simple' or 'less is more' and the answer from the TBers is 99% agreement for player discretion.. i.e. simple where it fits and awsome chops where appropriate & useful.
If you are not a troll (I'm not assuming you are, I just am not used to hearing bassists express such rigid rules on their own musical expression) I can totally see how simplicity fits a great many bass roles. But you should know the best bass player, if you use the success or fame of a band / music as the measure, is always the player who can make it work. Tool have been a big act for around 20 years, plenty of proggy bass lines. complex and successful. Jerry Scheff with Elvis - sometimes complex, sometimes simple and very successful. U2, straightforward and successful. It takes all sorts.
I think half the 'flaming' that occurs online is miscommunication. I hope I'm not doing that when I, in my humble ignorance, comment on the variety and wonderful expression in modern bass. Wouldn't sacrifice it for any success.

>EDIT: I guess what

The idea of what a bass player is supposed to do has been totally perverted by the more gifted and more talented.

is getting at is the eroding of the narrow, Traditional bass role. I have no problem with that, but ever since the groove found it's way through jazz and blues to rock and pop, a little bass run / fill has been the icing on many a traditional cake.

 

[Ian the bassist]

I can't believe that someone actually had the gall to compare Adam Clayton to Jaco Pastorius. What a sad comparison...I won't even quote it because I want as few people to read that stupidity as possible.

You're missing his point. He's saying that it's all about music taste. Just because I don't like Jaco Pastorius' playing. Doesn't mean he's bad. He's obviously very talented. I just find his playing a bit boring because he adds a harmonic after almost every phrase. At the same time it can be said for Adam Clayton. He is a root note bore for me and I think U2 are crap. But there is obviously plenty of people who like him and the band. At the end of the day we can throw our opinions up here and feel we are right, but it is all down to opinion. You're comment is an opinion also.

 

[bassistloaded21]

I had just....smoked.....but basically, you dont have to have chops to be a good bass player, to sum it all up

 

[Corevalay]

I hate these threads. Who are any of you to comment on what is or isn't art? - Ridiculous. Is a catchy pop tune any less artful than Beethovens fifth? Or vice versa? Does a guy wanking 1000 notes per minute constitute art? Maybe to some...art can't be defined, because people tend to confuse "art" with "personal preference", and their own personal taste, or lack thereof...

Nothing more to say then that! Art always has to be something obscure or complicated that not everyone can "appreciate" or "understand". It's funny because it seems alot of times a popular band might make an album that isn't very good or doesn't appeal to alot of fans and it's labeled as them being more artsy. It's just a buzz word to me. What about a pop song ISN'T art?

 

[Ian the bassist]

A real bass player plays what the song calls for. The idea of what a bass player is supposed to do has been totally perverted by the more gifted and more talented. A bass player that plays pocket and not alot of notes is the best player. You dont see all these bass players w crazy chops getting real gigs, they have to do their own thing, and theres a reason. I respect everyone, and everyones abilities, im not a strictly pocket bass player, but i know when to lay it. Its all about the music, not about your personal skills.

I disagree. There's plenty example of top quality bassists who add in great riffs and melodies to songs, who get far in a band. Look at Geddy Lee, Cliff Burton, Robert Trujillo, John Paul Jones, Geezer Butler and Flea, to name a very few.

I play root notes in songs when the guitar riff is what needs to dominate completely. But there's plenty of times I throw in riffs that counter the guitar work. It doesn't mean you're showing off. It means you're trying to make the song better by being more musical. You don't always have to fill space with one note.

 

[Relayer71]

Clayton is part of a... formulaic band.

Often his tone and understated play are the only part of U2's songs I can enjoy.

They weren't always formulaic, they could be pretty adventurous at times. Listen to the album version of the song "Bad" (from 1984's The Unforgettable Fire) - there is some awesome stuff going on that song from the drums, bass and guitars.

1987's Joshua Tree had some pretty cool stuff going on too. With Or Without you is a very simple song but how many songs that topped the charts had a GUITAR FEEDBACK track running through most of the song?

They started really sucking right around the time of POP but their peak was Zooropa, which also was not completely formulaic.

But I agree on your second sentence, as far as the material after Zooropa is concerned.

 

[Relayer71]

Can't wait until 10 years from now when everyone forgets about Jaco Pastorius and stops using him as the example of the be-all-end-all bass player.

Oh now that's just ridiculous. What is going to happen in 10 years that the rest of us don't know? And I'm not a huge Jaco fan, but he's done more for bass playing than Adam Clayton has. That's for sure.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Can't wait until 10 years from now when everyone forgets about Jaco Pastorius and stops using him as the example of the be-all-end-all bass player.

That is a ridiculous statement for any serious bass player to make. Whether you like Jaco is irrelevant. Nobody can deny that there was electric bass before Jaco and electric bass after, that man used his immense skill to kick open the door for plenty of generations to come, he made it cool to have the bass as a lead instrument.

The only other person remotely as important on bass is James Jamerson, the man who defined the bass' role in popular music.

There is a reason Jaco is still considered the best over 20 years after his death. Just because you cannot appreciated a deep technical prowess, combined with an immense knowledge of musical theory, because it is applied to jazz, does not discredit what he did.

 

[Relayer71]

I wonder what Jaco would have sounded like playing on "New Years Day"?

 

[Stick_Player]

Can't wait until 10 years from now when everyone forgets about Jaco Pastorius and stops using him as the example of the be-all-end-all bass player.

Don't you have something better to do?

I'd never heard of him before I joined TB, ...

That's your own doing.

... and years later and listening to countless tracks posted by members, I just don't see the appeal. I click every link people post, hoping to see the light, and it hasnt happened.

Sorry to hear that.

But I've also found that my musical tastes differ from alot of TB members, and alot of TB members tastes differ from other TB members, the older generation seems to keep Jaco up on a pedestal and us young'ns feel obligated to appreciate it whether we like it or not, because its "art" and if you disagree then you don't understand what "art" is (what a great argument!)

Who will be on your pedestal when you're not a "young'n"?

What I have heard and do appreciate is 80's U2, and when I get out of the car and hum the last tune I just heard, its not the Edge's echo effect, its Clayton's bassline.

Even a deaf-mute could do that much.

Cue 5 or 6 posts telling me I have no ear for music and I am the example of whats wrong with this generation

No comment.

 

[jmercer91]

Not too familiar with u2 (I don't like them) but I don't think he's much worse than the rest of the band...

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Art music - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Dean N]

So this thread is a perfect example of what I like about TB, but hate about the internet.

That is a ridiculous statement for any serious bass player to make. Whether you like Jaco is irrelevant. Nobody can deny that there was electric bass before Jaco and electric bass after, that man used his immense skill to kick open the door for plenty of generations to come, he made it cool to have the bass as a lead instrument.

The only other person remotely as important on bass is James Jamerson, the man who defined the bass' role in popular music

...

DIM, I've read a lot of things you've posted on TB that I've disagreed with. And that's cool. We don't have to call someone out as wrong because we disagree. You're spot on here! And ToastFuzz, we might disagree on this (I'm not exactly a big Clayton or U2 fan, actually), but don't worry, you didn't offend me. Jagoff.

But there's so many juvenile and ignorant opinions getting spouted off here, it's ridiculous. Example:

The idea of what a bass player is supposed to do has been totally perverted by the more gifted and more talented. A bass player that plays pocket and not alot of notes is the best player. You dont see all these bass players w crazy chops getting real gigs, they have to do their own thing, and theres a reason.

The word is expanded, not perverted.

I got dragged to a Keith Urban concert, and the "real gig" country bass player played what a "pocket player" would call "alot" of notes (more like a frickin' ton of notes), slapped the crap out of his bass for a bit, exchanged silly 15-year-old grins with the other musicians as he tore it up, and got huge applause from everyone all night. I was shocked that they all tore up the stage like they did, but not shocked that they could.

And Darryl Jones and Nathan East, yea, they aren't getting real gigs either. Silly crazy chops players.

 

[lfmn16]

I always like what you have to say and you articulate your thought better than I.

Thanks. I appreciate your comments.

I think the reason we argue on TB so much is that these people who say, "The bass must be played like this ..." don't understand that your goals determine how the bass should be played. If you want to make lots of money, I agree that you should play less notes and mimic the record. If you want to express your musical vision, you may or may not follow that model.

It must be my contrarian nature, but it's like fingernails on a chalk board when someone tells me "the role of the bass is ..." like they get to decide for everyone.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Art music - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I laughed. +1.

 

[Dean N]

Thanks. I appreciate your comments.

I think the reason we argue on TB so much is that these people who say, "The bass must be played like this ..." don't understand that your goals determine how the bass should be played. If you want to make lots of money, I agree that you should play less notes and mimic the record. If you want to express your musical vision, you may or may not follow that model.

It must be my contrarian nature, but it's like fingernails on a chalk board when someone tells me "the role of the bass is ..." like they get to decide for everyone.

+1 on both counts!

 

[Freez]

This isn't in a way a smart ass comment or a shot at you. But this is what's required of any bassist. Yes the guy is solid timing, and blends into the songs. But it doesn't mean he's anything special at the same time. Most bassists out there can do this.

It's the bassists that stand out in a piece that make it for me. I'm not saying he's bad. But there's nothing about him(in my personal opinion) that makes him unique or special. Obviously as you stated. This is my personal preference. And respect all other's as much as my own(unless they are just plain, dumb hahaha)

But the thread title isn't "what makes Adam Clayton special; it's Adam Clayton does not suck". And actually, there are LOTS of bassists with crap timing...

 

[Freez]

Being complicated doesn't make playing good, but neither does being simple. There is nothing noble or superior about sticking to root and 5th.

It's ironic that you post "Who are any of you to comment on what is or isn't art?" Yet you have no problem on defining what constitutes good bass playing as if there is a one size fits all definition.

You'll really know that you've grown up when your playing supports your musical goals, not someone else's definition of what makes good bass playing.

I didn't define what constitutes good bass playing, merely laid out what I consider to be the minimum requirement of a good bass player; ie good timing and playing in key. Can you be busy and be great? Absolutely! Is busy playing a requirement for a good bassist? Of course not. Hope that helps you, please let me know if you need further clarification.

 

[ugly_bassplayer]

Bottom line is pretty much , he plays for U2 & you dont'.

 

[Revolver]

I think U2 are band full of rather blah musicians. My wife saw them with Muse a couple of years ago. I told her to pay close attention to what they play. That individually, there is really nothing special about them. She said "Yeah, yeah, whatever." When she came home, the first words out of her mouth were "You were right." It seems like the guys in U2 don't do anything to improve their skills, like they're complacent. Skillwise, it's like they are at the same level they were at 30 years ago. I just find them uninspiring. I've never heard a song by them and said " Man, that was awesome! I've gotta listen to that one again!" Their stuff just seems to be something that they did before, regurgitated, and rearranged into something else. Blah.

When I was teaching my wife to play bass, I told her to pick out some songs with some easy basslines. She didn't know what an easy bassline was, so I told her to pick out some U2 songs. She replied "Don't be a dick." "Just pick out a couple of U2 songs" "Ok." I showed them to her, and after learning them herself she realized how easy they are. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with refined simplicity (like The Police). But there's nothing refined about U2. They're just simple.

Being in a band is, first and foremost, about the sum of all parts . . . unless one is a young player who wants to show off at every chance possible.

Saying that every U2 song (and record for that matter) sounds the same is a bit ridiculous (especially coming from a Maiden fan) and shows that you probably haven't checked out their material in depth.

Sure, Edge's delay-heavy guitar is unmistakeable and predictable, but that's what makes the signature sound of the band. He likes to play with sound, not a million notes a second.

And try being a successful musician for over 30 years and not fall into your own clichés! Please . . .

as for The Police comment . . .

"Yeah" , that Stewart Copeland is one "average" drummer . . .

I might not like certain artists work, but I can certainly admit when they have talent, just not the one I dig.