Advice on Current Band Situation

[stambroker]

Hey all,

I have been with my current band since September of last year. I love the tunes and the basslines are incredibly fun to play, and they're all great musicians, but... I feel something's wrong. Here's my situation:

I am 20 years old, the rest of the band is 28-30. The age gap isn't all that noticable, but it's enough to make me the "kid" and the newest member, still. I feel like I'm very realistic with these facts, and I've never been one to step on feet/feel entitled with my role.

The keyboard player/vocalist of the group was formerly the band's bassist, and a very good one at that, and helped me both in writing new parts and helping me learn the older songs' parts. This was absolutely instrumental in my effectiveness in the band, and the guy himself is amazing. Patient, nice, smart guy who I trust a lot.

The lead guitarist is incredible as well, very nice guy who runs our studio out of his basement, and always seems keen to help out a bandmate or be flexible enough to write new parts for songs.

The drummer, even, is very good... although I don't feel quite as close as I am with the guitarist/keyboard player, he's still conducive to a band democracy/discussion. Still a nice guy, but I can tell he is frustrated by the band's perceived lack of progress.

However, my only problem with this band is the lead vocalist/rhythm guitarist. He's a very good songwriter and guitarist, but his personality immediately turns me away. He likes to control every single aspect of the band, despite the band's (logical) arguments, and speaks in impulsive hyperbole (we are doing this this way, right now!). It's not even that he's mean about it, and when all is well he's not a bad guy. I just feel like he's not used to people saying "no" to him, he seems entitled to his opinion and only his opinion. Multiple times, the band has agreed on one thing (while he's not at practice) and he completely overturns it. Maybe it's just because I'm new, but I'm baffled on why the band just goes along with it.

It's more than likely because the band is only possible due to his songwriting. In no way do I want to get in the way of that, but there have multiple times where I feel like he undermines my voice for absolutely no reason. When he and the keyboard player meet for a songwriting session away from the band, and the keyboard player comes up with an incredibly complex bassline for a song he privately wrote a day before, he expects the band to play it at a show the very next weekend. He says, "learn it real quick". The former bass player has more experience and is an unnaturally, very good bassist/writer. But I don't think I'm being unreasonable in thinking that learning that complex of a bassline to a song I've never heard is ridiculous.

This has happened multiple times before, and I'm simply tired of going along with it for the sake of the band's progress. We're in the middle of recording our debut album, and I feel like it would be more respectful towards the band to bow out now and allow the keyboard player to record all the bass parts rather than quit after the album is released... of course, I'd offer this choice to the band, and I still have a show coming up this weekend that I'll play.

I came to this realization when I showed up to record and had a few ideas for the recording process. The singer simply said, "play it direct and through a mic, that's it", and left me to engineer by myself. I feel thoroughly disrespected and shelved, and I feel like I deserve better.

So, it's with a heavy heart that I feel like I need to quit. Despite the band's amazing studio, great songs and the ridiculously kind efforts from the keyboard player/lead guitarist, I just can't sit idly by and have my voice ignored. It's unfortunate to see the former bassist's help go wasted, but I'd rather end things amicably than have me flip out in a few months.

Anyone still reading this, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to vent. Has anyone else gone through a similar situation? Do you guys have any advice? Should I not do it?

Thanks in advance!

-Alec

 

[throughthefire]

Call a band meeting, and tell them exactly what you've just told us. Put everything on the table, and be prepared to walk away without a band. You never know, they may be prepared to bring you more into the creative process.

 

[stambroker]

Call a band meeting, and tell them exactly what you've just told us. Put everything on the table, and be prepared to walk away without a band. You never know, they may be prepared to bring you more into the creative process.

I've already voiced my frustrations with the keyboard player, and he made it very clear that the singer's superiority is necessary for the band to succeed. The band is in a pretty good place right now, and I'd rather quit that impede that. But I know that any attempt to appease me would be insincere. I don't think the situation will change, and I don't think I'm just complaining because I want more input, I don't think I'm being selfish on this issue. I frankly think that objectively, all members should be more invested.

Of course, I will talk things over with the band, I just think it'll be a proclaimation rather than a discussion. I don't think the band will see it as a loss as much as an obstacle, which is unfortunate. I really want to start a band where things are more friendly, but with similar levels of production/output as this band.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Your keyboard player is right. Let me tell ya, coming from a band of all chiefs and no indians makes decision making VERY hard, overly emotional, and time consuming in a band. While I will agree with you that everyone should have their input heard and respectfully considered, bands do tend to operate better if there's only one person driving the bus and everyone else just remains in their seats. If you feel the need to leave then I definitely wouldn't think less of you (for what it's worth), but understand that this will likely be a common theme with any band you join where you aren't a lead/founding member.

 

[stambroker]

Your keyboard player is right. Let me tell ya, coming from a band of all chiefs and no indians makes decision making VERY hard, overly emotional, and time consuming in a band. While I will agree with you that everyone should have their input heard and respectfully considered, bands do tend to operate better if there's only one person driving the bus and everyone else just remains in their seats. If you feel the need to leave then I definitely wouldn't think less of you (for what it's worth), but understand that this will likely be a common theme with any band you join where you aren't a lead/founding member.

The keyboard player is a very wise guy, and I definitely see where you/he is coming from. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I definitely feel like the current situation is far too tense/stressful to get any enjoyment out of. I've been pretty bummed out the last few days, and while I understand that's all my reaction to the situation, I should probably do something to change that. I'd really like to be a lead/founding member (like I have been with previous bands), if not just for the sense of comraderie I feel has been kind of lacking with this project.

I'm just apprehensive because the keyboard player took a lot of time to help me with parts and I am thinking of quitting; hopefully he understands.

 

[tZer]

Try to be sure the situation really is one you can't deal with before you split. Maybe your personal head-space was misaligned and the way you were interpreting all these 'slights' was off.

You seem like you have your head screwed on straight and it also sounds like you know what you need to do - but if a perspective switch on the role of the singer changes things, maybe you won't feel the way you do today.

Go with your heart, but be sure you've engaged your head before you make your final choice.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

The keyboard player is a very wise guy, and I definitely see where you/he is coming from. Maybe I'm just too naive, but I definitely feel like the current situation is far too tense/stressful to get any enjoyment out of. I've been pretty bummed out the last few days, and while I understand that's all my reaction to the situation, I should probably do something to change that. I'd really like to be a lead/founding member (like I have been with previous bands), if not just for the sense of comraderie I feel has been kind of lacking with this project.

I'm just apprehensive because the keyboard player took a lot of time to help me with parts and I am thinking of quitting; hopefully he understands.

I don't think you're naive. Actually, you remind me of myself from just a few years back (I'm 22). Back in high school I was the de facto leader of basically every group I either started or joined, so I definitely understand your frustration when your role changes.

That said, it's probably a good role for you to learn how to play. Try to enjoy just being a bassist and let everyone else have to deal with the responsibility of running a band. Let them make the tough decisions and let them have to be the 'ass' from time to time.

Learn to be more of a helpful team member, and if you're still struggling with things after a few weeks then go ahead and change your situation. But personally, I'd give it another go and see if you can learn some things from these guys since they're all older then you. At the very least you'll learn that you need to be in a leadership role in order to be happy That's what finally happened to me lol.

 

[Willie Dizon]

Help them finish their project.If time allows,take some time off to "cool" off and step back to see the future of this band(personalities included).Ask yourself," Do I want to stay in this situation for another 6mos,1yr, or 3yrs down the road?As a fellow bass player I feel your need to be heard.I believe every band member should ultimately have input(it is a GROUP effort after all.) In the end,you need to talk with the "offending" parties and settle this amicably.Control freaks have a purpose,but can be a real PITA to work with.Good luck and keep us posted.I hope my 2 cents worth was helpful.

 

[Muziekschuur]

It's never a problem to say..... "hey.... I usually do not speak up... but if I do, would you please let me finish.... Cause if I'm not mistaken I allways listen to you too...."

{pom pom pom> respons}

"Thanks!!!"

I'm quite sure you can say that. Give yourself some room to breath and damage nothing...

 

[stambroker]

That said, it's probably a good role for you to learn how to play. Try to enjoy just being a bassist and let everyone else have to deal with the responsibility of running a band. Let them make the tough decisions and let them have to be the 'ass' from time to time.

I've definitely learned a lot from this band. With 5 members and a ton of effects, it's definitely been a "full" and complex affair, and I really took to loving the bass in a whole new way. I'm also totally turned on to the 5 string bass, strung EADGC, which opens up new doors. However, I feel that the "tough decisions" are just being ignored and complacency is repeated, rather than taken care of. If I was just along for the ride, and there were no problems, I feel like I'd be less vocal.

Help them finish their project.If time allows,take some time off to "cool" off and step back to see the future of this band(personalities included).Ask yourself," Do I want to stay in this situation for another 6mos,1yr, or 3yrs down the road?As a fellow bass player I feel your need to be heard.I believe every band member should ultimately have input(it is a GROUP effort after all.) In the end,you need to talk with the "offending" parties and settle this amicably.Control freaks have a purpose,but can be a real PITA to work with.Good luck and keep us posted.I hope my 2 cents worth was helpful.

Definitely helpful! I have no problem finishing this project, but I feel like it'd be a slap in the face for me to quit right after the album drops. It'd be as if, yeah, I want my name in the credits, then I leave... if I was to quit, I want it to be as amicable as possible. Am I taking that too seriously? I'm all for finishing any prior obligations, but I figured that the more respectful way would be to be honest. They took a risk with me and I appreciate it, but looking forward I just don't see myself in this band for the long-term. I love the music but I'm not too keen on bending my principles just to see success.

It's never a problem to say..... "hey.... I usually do not speak up... but if I do, would you please let me finish.... Cause if I'm not mistaken I allways listen to you too...."

{pom pom pom> respons}

"Thanks!!!"

I'm quite sure you can say that. Give yourself some room to breath and damage nothing...

I'm hardly a passive accessory, and I've spoken up in the past. The problem is that whenever I do, and even if other members agree with me, I get shut down dismissively by the lead singer and the other bandmates drop it. It's not a matter of them not listening, it's them not caring.

Thank you all, for the comments! Definitely a lot to think about.

 

[mambo4]

+1 to learning to be a helpful team member. As a bass player, it is tremendously useful to be at peace with a supportive role.

I choose to throw my ideas out and let them fly or die without attachment, trusting the taste of my bandmates. Just because it's my idea, or an idea I like, does not mean it's the best idea. It's one thing to be ignored, but it's another thing to have my ideas discarded for ideas that make the song better. Sometimes it's hard to be objective and not take the latter personally. I understand that not everyone is careful or politic about how they discard my ideas, and try I not to let it, bother me.

My rule of thumb for criticism is : Be thick skinned when receiving, be gentle & firm when giving.

 

[sloppy_phil]

I don't think you're naive. Actually, you remind me of myself from just a few years back (I'm 22). Back in high school I was the de facto leader of basically every group I either started or joined, so I definitely understand your frustration when your role changes.

That said, it's probably a good role for you to learn how to play. Try to enjoy just being a bassist and let everyone else have to deal with the responsibility of running a band. Let them make the tough decisions and let them have to be the 'ass' from time to time.

Learn to be more of a helpful team member, and if you're still struggling with things after a few weeks then go ahead and change your situation. But personally, I'd give it another go and see if you can learn some things from these guys since they're all older then you. At the very least you'll learn that you need to be in a leadership role in order to be happy That's what finally happened to me lol.

big +1 to this. JMatt has the right of things. I would definitely give it another go. You like the songs, the basslines, and basically everything except the sometimes-annoying leader. It sounds like a wicked place to learn how to be a good musician (both in terms of your chops, and how to deal with inter-personal BS). I've played/am playing in a couple situations where I don't have a lot of input into the music, and it works just fine. I'm friendly with everyone, but basically just show up and play my parts. It's really stress-free and a refreshing change of pace from leading a band (which I also do)!

In your case I wouldn't walk until the detriments of the singer totally outweighed all the benefits of staying (for which it sounds like you have several). I guess I'm just saying that you should continue to think it over rather than just run. It's a good life lesson to learn to deal with people you don't really like, because unfortunately they are impossible to avoid!

 

[Chuck King]

A couple observations that may be helpful:

1) In any project, there is somebody with a creative vision, and everybody else is involved in realizing that creative vision. It sounds like your singer has a strong vision. The question you should ask is, do you consider realizing that vision to be a worthwhile effort? There are a lot of benefits that can come from being along for the ride on something like that. If this band really has it going on, you could end up having some really cool experiences. Presumably, you like what they do enough to join. Is it worth giving up those potential opportunities over disputes over arrangements or recording techniques? Keep things in perspective.

2. You've been in this band for less than a year, and during that time they have been working on recording their first album. That's a stress-inducing process, and I assure you, the singer and songwriter(s) are worrying about it a lot more than you are. That environment is not a good time or place to be trying to assert yourself or carve out your spot. I would advise you to let them do what they're doing and do whatever you can to smooth the path. (Unless you feel that their decisions are ruining it, but it doesn't sound like that, and that's another issue.) After the album drops, things will probably cool off a bit, and as you focus more on live shows etc., I suspect you will have more opportunities to make your mark. By the time the band starts thinking about a next album, you will be established and will hopefully be able to have more of a say.

3. Working with a bandleader with a strong vision, you may never be a full collaborative partner in the band. At best, if the band is comfortable and everybody likes each other, you will get to come along to wherever it goes. At worst, after laying all the groundwork, he will get signed and the rest of you will be left behind. But, the more successful the project is, the easier it will be for you to be replaced. Right now is when you have the most leverage, because until it starts making money he needs you guys as much or more than you need him; as it gets more successful, that relationship reverses. So you are unlikely to end up with more of a say in how things go if the band is successful, but you may be able to make a deal now that will give you part of the up-side if/when that occurs.

 

[stambroker]

2. You've been in this band for less than a year, and during that time they have been working on recording their first album. That's a stress-inducing process, and I assure you, the singer and songwriter(s) are worrying about it a lot more than you are. That environment is not a good time or place to be trying to assert yourself or carve out your spot. I would advise you to let them do what they're doing and do whatever you can to smooth the path. (Unless you feel that their decisions are ruining it, but it doesn't sound like that, and that's another issue.) After the album drops, things will probably cool off a bit, and as you focus more on live shows etc., I suspect you will have more opportunities to make your mark. By the time the band starts thinking about a next album, you will be established and will hopefully be able to have more of a say.

This is the key part of the post that stands out for me. I've said before that I am highly appreciative of the chance to record even though I'm so new, but a few other things: every day we practice, the lead singer says that our newest priority is the newest song he wrote the night prior... forgoing the remaining songs we still need to finish. Then he expects the band to play it at the next show, generally to terribly out-of-practice results. I may just be not good enough of a player, but the process is stressing me out and I feel like I can't keep up with this rather depressing cycle. We barely have half of our album recorded (let alone mixed/mastered) and already our singer says that it'll actually be a double album... featuring 10 songs that none of us have heard, and aren't finished.

So, you asked if I think his/their decisions are ruining it? Absolutely. I really, really dislike the way we're focusing on the singer's every whim while we have several songs not even finished yet. Then the expectation is on us to have them down despite the practice being used for something else. I think that focusing and finishing something is a much better approached to the frankly scatterbrained approach employed now. While it's impressive that he has high output of pretty decent songs, timing wise it's terrible.

I'm not saying that such a high-speed production cycle is uncommon, but I need to be realistic: I really enjoy playing, but the studio is about 45 minutes away, and I am a college student and work full time. To get there, practice and have to go through a ridiculously frustrating session week after week, is pretty demoralizing. I may enjoy the lines, but playing them with the band is slowly losing its enjoyability. Playing live is always fun, but the last few shows just haven't been a band affair... it's as if it's each member alone out there. We sound great, of course, but like I said it doesn't necessarily hold the comraderie I generally like in a band.

Sorry for the verbose response, but it's ridiculously therapeutic to let this all out. Thank you very much for taking the time to encourage me otherwise. I'm going to continue to play, perhaps raise my concerns with the keyboard player, and decide from there.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

When he and the keyboard player meet for a songwriting session away from the band, and the keyboard player comes up with an incredibly complex bassline for a song he privately wrote a day before, he expects the band to play it at a show the very next weekend. He says, "learn it real quick". The former bass player has more experience and is an unnaturally, very good bassist/writer. But I don't think I'm being unreasonable in thinking that learning that complex of a bassline to a song I've never heard is ridiculous.

Sorry dude, you cannot keep up with these guys. If you cannot learn one song in a week, your clearly not ready for this, I wouldn't want you in my band either. I know it isn't what you want to hear, but that is the facts of life. I personally like to be the worst player in my band, it helps me grow as a player, but you cannot be too far behind the group, otherwise you get left behind.

I don't doubt the part was tough, and a finger breaker, but that is what their band requires.

EDIT: I took a while and the post above me came in with mine.... just leave dude, save yourself a lot of trouble and hassle, leave on good terms before spit hits the fan. Keep the contacts, and stay in touch if you like the other guys, never know when a new band is coming down the pipeline.

 

[stambroker]

Sorry dude, you cannot keep up with these guys. If you cannot learn one song in a week, your clearly not ready for this, I wouldn't want you in my band either. I know it isn't what you want to hear, but that is the facts of life. I personally like to be the worst player in my band, it helps me grow as a player, but you cannot be too far behind the group, otherwise you get left behind.

I don't doubt the part was tough, and a finger breaker, but that is what their band requires.

EDIT: I took a while and the post above me came in with mine.... just leave dude, save yourself a lot of trouble and hassle, leave on good terms before spit hits the fan. Keep the contacts, and stay in touch if you like the other guys, never know when a new band is coming down the pipeline.

Oh, it was actually a literal day. That's what threw me off, was the throwaway order involved. Written on a Thursday night, practiced on a Friday, performed on a Saturday. I did learn it, and played it, but it was such a rushed performance that I feel no one really enjoyed it. And we have a ton of originals, I suppose I just don't see the point in replacing the songs we do know with ones we barely know.

 

[ibateur]

The only solution here is an attitude and expectations adjustment. Your attitude and expectations are not "wrong". They just don't fit with the dynamics of this band. If you cannot adjust to match, then leave. To be honest, the singer/songwriter can also easily complain that his bassist is not accepting his role as songwriter (band leader) the same way the others have, and his creative style. I actually like the unstructured process far more than the structured.

 

[screaminglucy]

i would just roll with it and it might get better as they get to know you more. that said if what you are voicing is about your parts (the bassline) and they don't listen then there is something wrong there. think of it as a challenge to keep up but if you don't want that challenge and it's stressing you out then bow out.

 

[stambroker]

The suggestions are just minor changes to parts and effects and efforts to make the songs sound different. My frustration is that I show it to the rest of the band and they dig it, but the singer literally doesn't even want to hear it. He says, "just play it how you always do", or "play it how I said it". I'd be totally fine with rejection, but the principle that he doesn't care about any potential changes really irks me. I'm more or less subjugated to being a live bassist in the singer's eyes. I know that's fine for some bassists, but I would much rather be in a band as I know it than an entourage.

At the end of the day, I just need to weigh whether or not I'm getting anything out of this band besides frustration. It may just be the timing, and it may get better as time goes along, but my life is ridiculously hectic right now and I'm not sure where this should fall on the priorities list.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Probably a good question to consider and answer is how does the rest of the band feel? Are they able to keep up with these last minute songs and learn their parts in a days time? If the answer is they can and they're fine with it then perhaps the band just moves a little faster than you're comfortable with. And that's not a bad thing. In fact, I'd say it'd be a good learning experience for you. I was in a band (actually, my current band is like this too) that would write songs during the day and would play them for the first time that same night. It was stressful for awhile, but I've gotten use to it and I now find it a very rewarding thing to be able to do.