Advice on Geezer Butler/Jack Bruce tone(s)

[PRIMARCHFROGMAN]

I'm not technical enough to justify it, but I group Geezer and Jack into a similar tone category. I've tried out a few techniques/approaches for their tones, and not that they haven't been successful, but my attempts haven't been based on anything specific and lack method. Might be that there's a big difference between asking how to sound like them v.s. what made them sound the way they do.

Specifically I'm referencing Geezer's tone on Masters of Reality and Jack's at Cream's Albert Hall farewell performance. MoR is studio, the farewell is a live recording. In terms of mimicking these I'm looking for advice on changes to my playing/setup I can make to emulate not the exact tone, but the facets that make their sound so huge and accented. If the solution boils down to playing super loud through amplification setups that cost the same as my tuition, please spare me the truth.

Using the same techniques/equipment makes up most of the advice, but I'm trying to manage without going that route.

Within the scope of my setup, I've seen the best success with the following:

- Thunderbird. Long scale length and low end output works great for pushing speakers and getting more depth out of a heavier attack, I also added in a mudbucker above the neck pickup and that adds a lot.

- Dead round-wounds. I tried flat wounds and they don't work well. However, it sounded shockingly close to Cliff's live sound while they were touring Kill Em' All using a cheap multi-fx, overdrive, and Morley wah.

- EQ (3 band) set with Bass and Mid between 9 and noon, within a +- 1 range of each other. Treble set around +2 over whatever the bass is at.

Like I said before, I'm aiming to figure out how to make a tone with similar characteristics, not replicate it perfectly. Advice would be welcomed.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Geezer on Master of Puppets or Masters of Reality?

 

[PRIMARCHFROGMAN]

Geezer on Master of Puppets or Masters of Reality?

Masters of Reality. I really didn't catch that when I went over the post before submitting.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Alright. Cool.

I think the one truly defining quality of both bassists is proper use of distortion/fuzz. People are always amazed when I show them that I add distortion to a mix with a bass line that winds up sounding very clean.

Very rarely did either one of these two play clean bass lines, but they used the distortion very ... tastefully.

Both were playing in one-guitar bands. So, at least when playing live, they needed the distortion to "fill out the sound".

With Geezer, Iommi tuned down a half step so there's that element of added ... doom? Darkness?

 

[Paul New]

I don't know about signal chains, but neither of those players subscribed to the current light touch dogma. They both dug in when they played. Like a bass player ought to do.

 

[bobyoung53]

I'm not technical enough to justify it, but I group Geezer and Jack into a similar tone category. I've tried out a few techniques/approaches for their tones, and not that they haven't been successful, but my attempts haven't been based on anything specific and lack method. Might be that there's a big difference between asking how to sound like them v.s. what made them sound the way they do.

Specifically I'm referencing Geezer's tone on Masters of Reality and Jack's at Cream's Albert Hall farewell performance. MoR is studio, the farewell is a live recording. In terms of mimicking these I'm looking for advice on changes to my playing/setup I can make to emulate not the exact tone, but the facets that make their sound so huge and accented. If the solution boils down to playing super loud through amplification setups that cost the same as my tuition, please spare me the truth.

Using the same techniques/equipment makes up most of the advice, but I'm trying to manage without going that route.

Within the scope of my setup, I've seen the best success with the following:

- Thunderbird. Long scale length and low end output works great for pushing speakers and getting more depth out of a heavier attack, I also added in a mudbucker above the neck pickup and that adds a lot.

- Dead round-wounds. I tried flat wounds and they don't work well. However, it sounded shockingly close to Cliff's live sound while they were touring Kill Em' All using a cheap multi-fx, overdrive, and Morley wah.

- EQ (3 band) set with Bass and Mid between 9 and noon, within a +- 1 range of each other. Treble set around +2 over whatever the bass is at.

Like I said before, I'm aiming to figure out how to make a tone with similar characteristics, not replicate it perfectly. Advice would be welcomed.

I don't know all that much about Geezer Butler but know at least he used a P bass with Laney tube heads and I do hear some overdrive on that album, most likely from the head being overdriven. Jack used 100 watt Marshall amps from 1966 until probably the late 70's and pushed them and yes both of those guys wrenched the sound out of their basses and amps. Also Jack used La Bella flatwounds, don't know about Geezer. Jack also had a diode put in his EB-3 which gave it some distortion also but I think most of his sound was the way he played using Gibson basses with humbuckers and Marshall tube amps. A distortion box would send you in the right direction. I've never thought Geezer Butler's bass sounded anything like Jack Bruce's to tell you the truth. I also know that Jack accented the midrange, Geezer played a lot more bassy.

A thunderbird should work well with a distortion box, a tube amp if you have one would help too. Here's Jack with a very dirty sound with very little bottom in the studio with his EB-3, he was a monster.

 

[Michedelic]

I don't know what the differences between Laney and Marshall might be, circuit-wise, but I'm assuming that the amps used by both players had EL-34 power sections, then there's the aspect of 4x12 cabs.

 

[Karli]

I found the Interview:

"At one point during your stint with Cream, you tried a Danelectro Longhorn.
Dan Armstrong actually "doctored" all of our guitars back then. He had a place just opposite Manny's (Music store) on 42nd Street (New York City), and we would take our guitars to get them souped up. There was a Danelectro in his shop that he'd been working on, and I bought it. It was useful for some things, but I didn't use it much. I did use it on some tracks. It had a very interesting sound, more like a piano, and it was quite twangy. But I used the EB-3 up until the mid '70s."

Here is the Link: Jack Bruce | Vintage Guitar® magazine

Cheers
KARLi

 

[MrAB4003]

Alright. Cool.

I think the one truly defining quality of both bassists is proper use of distortion/fuzz. People are always amazed when I show them that I add distortion to a mix with a bass line that winds up sounding very clean.

Very rarely did either one of these two play clean bass lines, but they used the distortion very ... tastefully.

Both were playing in one-guitar bands. So, at least when playing live, they needed the distortion to "fill out the sound".

With Geezer, Iommi tuned down a half step so there's that element of added ... doom? Darkness?

Tony and Geezer tuned down a minor third (1.5 steps) to C# Standard because Tony lost a few of his fingertips in an industrial / literal heavy metal accident before Black Sabbath was founded. Tony was in too much pain to play in standard tuning after Paranoid came out, so he compensated by tuning down. Necessity is the mother of all invention, including heavy metal. Geezer followed suit to maintain the heaviness and musical stability.

Jack (RIP) was an influence on Geezer, so I can understand OP putting them in the same group. Both bassists were melodic, had excellent control over the bass, incredibly heavy, and were influenced by jazz and blues music. Listen to NIB from Black Sabbath's first album for proof.

To get Geezer's tone, I play a P Bass with the tone knob at 5. I would also have slight distortion on and some compression. A wah wah pedal might be helpful too if you want to solo like him. Add more distortion and play near the neck if you want to sound closer to Cream-era Jack.