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Advice on setup - drummer can't hear

walknbluez

walknbluez

Oct 3, 2007
1,017
8
Sacramento, CA
#1
So we've done a few smaller gigs where we run the sound ourselves. There are usually issues where one or more people can't hear each other so we're working on it and trying to find the best setup to be able to hear each other as well as the best mix so it sounds good to the audience. Our last gig was an outdoor gig and the drummer had trouble hearing vocals and keys. We had the bass cab, and both guitar speakers behind the drummer to create a backline so he would be able to hear everything. We had two monitors on each side of him which the keys and bass drum ran through. Then there were two monitors for out in front for the vocals for the audience and three floor monitors facing each singer which also pointed back toward the drummer. I was not going direct into either of the P.A.s.

The first issue is that the drummer can't hear certain instruments. This last gig he could not hear the vocals and the keys very well and that affected his playing. Not because they weren't loud enough because the rest of us could hear but because the guitars blew everything else away because the speakers were right behind him. I've posted a picture below. The gig before that lead guitar, keys, and vocals were not behind him and instead went into a monitor and blew his ears out and he couldn't hear anything else.

Second issue is whether or not I should go direct into the PA. Everytime I hear a band where the bass is direct in it seems to sound so much better than just relying on the cab. However, I don't believe that works if you don't have a sound man to mix. So If I should just drop this part of the issue until we play with a sound guy let me know.

So what is the best configuration so a drummer can best hear? I.e. how many monitors for instrument mix, vocals, placement and so forth.

IMAG0474.jpg
 
#2
Move the guitar & bass cabs to the sides of the drummer. He should still be able to hear them. If not add a little of each to the monitor mix or he can play quieter. You guys seem to have plenty of PA & monitors, so everyone hearing each other all come down to mixing it right & volume control.
 
#3
Cableguy addressed the guitar and bass cabinet placement issues. Here's what I believe needs to be done to correct the rest of the problem.
There was no mention of a vocal feed to the drummer. That's one major problem. You are overloading him with instrument feeds and expect him to hear vocal monitors that were about 6 to 10 ft away aiming up in the air. That ain't gonna happen.

Here are some things you can do. Give him everything he needs to hear in his monitor mix including vocals or give him monitors with only vocals in them and let him hear the rest of the instruments from their normal speakers.

In a lot of cases for a monitor I've seen drummers use a large full range speaker cabinet to their left aiming back at them.

There is one other solution and that would be headphones for the drummer with everything he needs in them, but you'd have to mic the drums if you're not doing so.

Do you run the keys and the guitars through the mains? How about the drums? If the answer to any of these is yes (soundman or not), why would you leave the bass out.

It's a simple fix without a soundman but you must have disciplined players. Set your sound level before the gig and go with it. If everyone doesn't try to out do the other you'll fine.
One of the absolute best groups in Louisville, KY has keys, drums, bass, guitar, trumpet and sax. They never use a soundman. They simply premix and go, but they all know that if they turn-up they'll sound like crap.

I tried to send you my phone number in case you had any other issues but your PM box is full.
I hope that was helpful and not too much info.
 
#5
Pep said:
Do you run the keys and the guitars through the mains? How about the drums? If the answer to any of these is yes (soundman or not), why would you leave the bass out.

I tried to send you my phone number in case you had any other issues but your PM box is full.
I hope that was helpful and not too much info.
Click to expand...

Thanks Pep....yes that was very helpful. Thanks to cableguy as well.

To answer your question and gguns as well, the keys were going through the two speakers in the back. They are the keyboardist's mains that he uses. When I asked about putting my bass through the mains, one of my bandmates said "that would be too much going through". After some thought this puzzled me since the keyboard player told me his keys mains can handle 1000 watts. Alas, I think that the issue of me going through the mains is for it's own thread because it brings up several other questions.

Pep, my box was full so sorry about the pm. I have since cleared it out.
 
#6
Issue #1- Move the guitar rig up in front of the drummer if he's drowning everything else out.

Our drummer never seemed to get enough bass and guitar in his monitors no matter where we played. This is what we used to do... It's sort of ghetto but it totally worked. We took an old Kustom 200w 4 channel PA with us and an extra 4 ohm 2x12. I ran my bass direct to it and threw an extra crappy old mic on the guitar with a 1/4" plug on the end and plugged that in too. We mounted the cab on an old drum stand (I screwed an adapter to the back of the cab) and put it at ear level. Drummer adjusted levels to taste, no more issue with him not hearing us. I don't see why you couldn't do this with the keys as well. Vox would be an issue though. My point is, think outside the box. You don't always have to buy another PA monitor and power amp, use what ya have lying around or can buy on the cheap.

Issue #2- I wouldn't run bass through those mains. Pick up another cab, preferably something large and ported that will have good low end.
 
#9
Mike and DI everything and get control in your monitors and mains to the musicians. Each person should really only be listening to one speakers for the bulk of their band mix, and supplement their own monitoring with their instruement amp. Move the guitar and bass amps near the musician's, and put the biggest monitors by the drummer and keyboard player. Get a couple of aux mixes going. Get rid of those 2nd mains in the backline. If the mains are weak, you are going to have to use a bit more stage volume. If the stage amps are louder than the monitors, it will mess up the balance of everyone's own mix. You can get by putting kick, bass, and keys in the mains. If you are using that mixer amp to run monitors and mains, just drop some of the lowest of bass off with the EQ if the cabs can't handle it. Throwing in a sub or two will do wonders for the audience.
Good luck!
Wes
 

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