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Advice on writing songs

LowEndWooly

LowEndWooly

Sep 3, 2013
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Indiana
#1
i would say I'm a pretty decent bass player.. I can come up with some alright bass lines based off of chords and key, but I can't seem to be able to write a song. I have a general sense of what chords sound good in a key, but structure seems to allude me.

Does anybody have any good resources on writing songs or have any good advice? I'm not even talking about lyrics, though I could use help there, too.
 
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#3
Get a book that discusses popular songs and how they are constructed. That helps a lot.

To get the creative juices flowing, give yourself a small box of things to create with. Limits that feel excessive even.

This could be anything like 'create a rythm using only 2 notes' and only 1/4 notes. Pick an unfamiliar key or mode to work in. Arbitrary choose based on a progression such as I V I II I (i have no idea if that's good, i just randomly chose it).

It could be anything. It brings out sounds you would have never considered and it takes the stress out of where to start.

If creating a line is easy fou you, start with a chord progression instead. If you can create interesting beginnings, start with a refrain melody instead.

And don't worry about structure until you have more material to arrange. It really works to have a good part of the lyric here as well. Of course you can have place holder lyrics for a verse if that gives you something to help work out a verse.

You could write a good chorus melody, then find the chord progression that works. Then work on an intro line, then the verse might become obvious. If you struggle with chorus melodies, consider a simple lyric to play with. Or grab a different instrument to noodle out a melody. You don't have to be proficient on an instrument to do this. Just poke around on it.

If you are reading about song structures from songs you are familiar with, at this point having some ingredients may suggest a song form to arrange to.

Study a bit. Start small, limit choice, try new instruments or sounds. Build as you go. Have fun!

Shortcut: get a co-writer. You fill in for each other and create faster if it's a good match.
 
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#5
The following is a basic format you could use to write any song. Use as much of this as you need.

Decide on a scale. Yes just one. I sing best in D if this is going to be my song I'd write it with D scale notes for the melody and chords from the key of D will give me the harmony. If you do not have any vocalist in mind C is easy - no sharps or flats. OK I want to write a Pop, Rock or Country song so Major scale and major chords will be a good starting point.


• Decide on a chord progression. Yes one of the cookie cutter progressions will be fine to get started. You can flesh it out later. Since this is my song I'd use a I IV V7 I or D, G, A7, D progression.


• Now the rest is chicken or egg. I chose lyrics, chords then melody. You may want to go melody then chords and leave lyrics for last. It's your song do it the way you want. The order you take does not matter all that much. However, you should touch on everything that follows. I'll give the lyrics first method.


• Get the story into verse format. The music I play is based around someone singing the song (vocals) so if I do not have a story to tell there is no reason for the song. OK that out of the way. Four line verse is a good format. You will need three verses and a chorus. Chorus is the hook, what you want them singing tomorrrow. Rhyme or not up to you. If you are writing an instrumental piece you of course will not have lyrics to anchor your verses, etc. The repeating head (tune) is your anchor now.


• You've got the story into verse format, three verses and a chorus. Each verses brings up a thought, discusses it and brings that thought to a close; so the next verse can bring up another thought. Place your cookie cutter progression over the lyric words. This is my first draft approach. Start the verse with the I chord - you are at rest to start so the I tonic chord makes since. To get some interest into the chord progression we need to get some tension into the progression so move to the IV chord near the ending of the first line. Continue with the IV into the second line and near the end of the second line bring in the V7 chord. This increases the tension and acts as a climax. Since we have reached climax quickly end the 2nd line with the I chord. You moved the first two lines from I (rest) to IV (tension) to V7 (climax) and then resolved back to the I chord and rest. Repeat this for the 3rd and 4th line. I like to get two V-I cadences into my four line verse. Might as well use that same format for the other verses and what the heck use it for the chorus - remember you are doing a first draft. To illustrate I've listed the first words of the Gettysburg Address below and placed chords like I mentioned:

D................................G
Four score and seven years ago,
G...................A7............D
our fathers brought forth on this continent
D...........................G
a new nation: conceived in liberty, and dedicated
G ......................A7..................D
to the proposition that all men are created equal.

​
Recap of Verse format -- one way could be -- first two lines bring up a thought then the 3rd and 4th line of the verse react to what was said in the first two lines and then bring that thought to a close so verse number two can bring up another thought. The chorus contains the overall feeling of the song and is normally repeated at least once.


• Play that progression and recite the lyrics. Move the chords around to where they match with the lyric words. Move them a little one way or the other - your ear will tell you.


• Now it's melody time. I go to the keyboard for this - at any rate - one melody note per lyric word syllable. In the above the word "sev-en will take two melody notes, as will "fath-ers. One note per lyric word syllable is a great help when writing melody.


• Which notes. The chord's pentatonic will give you three chord tones, for harmonization, and two safe passing notes - more than enough to build a melody that will harmonize with the chords you are using. Yes your melody notes and your chord notes should share like notes - when they do you harmonize both the melody and the chord line. I find knowing the progression first then finding melody notes from within the chords lets me keep the chord progression's journey from rest, tension, climax, resolution and return to rest the verse should travel intact. Now I only have to find harmonizing notes for my melody from the active chord or it's pentatonic. Here is what I do. Recite a lyric phrase and see what chord tone notes sounds best over that phrase. Here is Mary Had A Little Lamb in C; notice it's one melody note per lyric word syllable:


C.....................................Dm.......... .....C

Ma-ry had a lit-tle lamb.... Lit-tle lamb... lit-tle lamb.

E...D...C...D.E..E...E..........D...D..D........E. .G...G


• That will get you a lead sheet, treble clef, chords and lyrics. A bass clef would be nice or just leave it as a lead sheet and let the bassist compose the bass line - how the chord tones are played - as he/she feels best.

Sit back open a bottle of your favorite beverage and start on fleshing out your first draft.


That is just about all that is necessary to write a simple song. This may be a little more than you first thought, Take it one step at a time and it'll all fall together. The chords used do two things; 1) move the verse along in the story and 2) if the chords and the melody (treble clef and bass clef) share like notes harmonization happens. Music is made of melody, harmony and rhythm. Rhythm is another story and needs a string all it's own...

Good luck.
 
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#6
LowEndWooly said:
i would say I'm a pretty decent bass player.. I can come up with some alright bass lines based off of chords and key, but I can't seem to be able to write a song. I have a general sense of what chords sound good in a key, but structure seems to allude me.

Does anybody have any good resources on writing songs or have any good advice? I'm not even talking about lyrics, though I could use help there, too.
Click to expand...
A small tidbit on melodies that I picked up from a music theory book. There should be a question and an answer, a tension and resolution of sorts.

Taking the aforementioned Mary had a little Lamb

You hear that tension: Mary had a little lamb.

The resolution: its fleece was white as snow.

Listening, all the notes set you up for an answer at the end.

I hope my weird explanation helps.
 
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#14
Are you able to write "parts," rather than songs... such as verses, choruses, riffs, vocal melodies etc.? I generally write songs by coming up with one or two parts that I like, creating additional parts that work with that original part, and then mixing, matching, and arranging those parts until the song takes shape. Once you have a part that you like, you can break down that part to help in working out another part or a few that would work with it (or, if you write lots of parts, you can go to your "bank" of parts and to find parts that will work). Think about the chords and notes your seed part uses, where you imagine it might fit in a song, what types of parts could come before or after it, etc. If you can come up with a few parts this way, you can play around with different arrangements of those parts to create a song structure. In my experience, once you have a few parts available, it is much easier for my brain to interpret them as a song and "hear" how they might fit together and progress.

The majority of my main band's most recent songs (original rock) were written in roughly this fashion:

(1) One member comes up with a riff or two and shows it to the band;

(2) Someone else comes up with a another riff or two that works well;

(3) I'll take those few parts home and let them stew for awhile, and come up with a rough arrangement. Sometimes the parts will be enough by themselves, or sometimes I'll have to come up with concepts for the band to work out later (i.e. "write instrumental bridge between second chorus and third verse").

(4) The band will jam on the rough structure to get a feel for the parts, come up with any extra material that is needed, and feel out where the structure may need to be changed.

(5) Repeat as needed.
 
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#16
Write a lot. Revise. Write more. Write even more. Keep at it. Write down bits, even if they are just bits. You can come back to them later.

Like any skill it takes repetition, trial and error to get good at. Not many people write good songs prior to writing a bunch of bad ones, or at least completely derivative ones.
 
#17
LowEndWooly said:
That's some good stuff, there. Thanks. Particularly, I like this idea of a bank of parts. I mean, I have stuff floating in my head.. but I should put it down on a track for reference. Is there a program that can easily do this besides garageband?
Click to expand...

I usually just record parts on my phone as they occur to me. I do most of my "mixing and matching" of parts by playing them on bass or guitar, so the recording is mainly just there in case I can't remember something (or sometimes I'll scroll through looking for something that might work with a song I have in progress). Every once in a long while I'll dump the files out into a computer folder if I have too much stashed on the phone to manage.

I usually only record parts in a more formal manner if I want to work on layering different parts, such as multiple guitar/bass tracks or vocals. I tend to use Ableton Live for this, but only because it's the recording software I happen to have.
 
#19
twinjet said:
A small tidbit on melodies that I picked up from a music theory book. There should be a question and an answer, a tension and resolution of sorts.

Taking the aforementioned Mary had a little Lamb

You hear that tension: Mary had a little lamb.

The resolution: its fleece was white as snow.

Listening, all the notes set you up for an answer at the end.

I hope my weird explanation helps.
Click to expand...

 
#20
OK, seriously, some thoughts:

There's no one way to do it. I'm not a huge originals person, but I've written a few tunes, and they all came from a different starting point. Some started with a bassline, some I came up with a chord progression on guitar, others I started with lyrics and found parts to match.

Learning some guitar or piano is a good idea - easier to work out chord progressions that way.

If you keep the bass line simple at first, and pick a key, then you can figure the bass notes will be the root of whatever chords, thus letting it define the chord progression.

If you want it to be something catchy, focus on the chorus. Don't overthink it, keep it simple and repetitive.


I've just started with a book on writing better lyrics, and not too far into it. But one great idea already from the beginning is to write with all your senses - give the lyrics tangible images that evoke sounds, sights, smells, tastes, everything. Let the most vivid material "drip down" through the rest of the song - in other words, put it at the top and save the more general, abstract words for later on, so that the vivid imagery is already in the listener's head.
 
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